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Ric Gillespie

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A question for our British members
« on: September 16, 2011, 09:21:43 AM »

This is a pronunciation question for our British forum members.
How would you pronounce the name Gallagher?  (spell phonetically please)
Believe it or not, this is an important issue in tracing some of the island's history.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 09:31:13 AM »

Gallaher or maybe Gallageer (a kind of silent 'h').  We have a TV comedy program called shameless where the lead character if called Frank Gallagher.  Checking with my colleague in the next door office who is a fan he also supports the silent 'h' theory.  The double 'e' in my spelling could just be a regional anomaly as people from the south west of England tend to slur the end of words.

2 votes for Gallageer.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2011, 09:42:40 AM »

Interesting. Input from other parts of England?  (I'm channeling Prof. Henry Higgins)
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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2011, 12:26:12 PM »

I'm no Brit. I just thought we should ask the Irish speakers instead.
I thought I once asked an Irish friend (not so sure of this though; I can confirm) and he mentioned like 'gh' is a consonant proper to the language, a consonant we are not used to hear in English and so we approximate. I'm now in Pakistan and the Urdu language (and I suppose Hindi too) has this consonant they call "ghain". But again, it is not pronounced like 'gain' nor 'hain' but somewhere in between.

You must have native Hebrew speakers around you, and the closest I can think of is the guttural consonant 'kaf', transliterated normally as 'kh', or the less rough consonant 'heth'.

Above, I mentioned that when we don't have the exact equivalent in our own language, we tend to approximate.
Just take this one: In English, the second son of Noah in the Bible is 'Ham'. In Italian, it is 'Cam' (as in camera).
In the original Hebrew, the first letter is the single consonant 'heth' whose sound is between k and h. English translators thought it was closer to H and made it Ham. Italians who have no H in their alphabet (there is in fact but is silent) approximated it to K.

If my second explanation more confusing, just stick to my first suggestion: Ask a native Irish speaker to pronounce it.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 02:14:04 PM »

I'm no Brit. I just thought we should ask the Irish speakers instead.
I thought I once asked an Irish friend (not so sure of this though; I can confirm) and he mentioned like 'gh' is a consonant proper to the language, a consonant we are not used to hear in English and so we approximate. I'm now in Pakistan and the Urdu language (and I suppose Hindi too) has this consonant they call "ghain". But again, it is not pronounced like 'gain' nor 'hain' but somewhere in between.

You must have native Hebrew speakers around you, and the closest I can think of is the guttural consonant 'kaf', transliterated normally as 'kh', or the less rough consonant 'heth'.

Above, I mentioned that when we don't have the exact equivalent in our own language, we tend to approximate.
Just take this one: In English, the second son of Noah in the Bible is 'Ham'. In Italian, it is 'Cam' (as in camera).
In the original Hebrew, the first letter is the single consonant 'heth' whose sound is between k and h. English translators thought it was closer to H and made it Ham. Italians who have no H in their alphabet (there is in fact but is silent) approximated it to K.

If my second explanation more confusing, just stick to my first suggestion: Ask a native Irish speaker to pronounce it.

Interesting view but I’m not sure that is what Ric is asking.  I may be wrong but I get the feeling he wants’ to know how the English would have pronounced the word Gallagher to the settlers and how they would then have applied it to the island?

I’m going to stick my neck out here and suggest that my rendition of the phonetic spelling of Gallagher may be tainted by time and socio economic factors.

In the 30’s the officer cadre of the empire were mostly recruited from young aspiring males from a public school and university back ground.

OK I tick those boxes but even though I was sent to public school to deal with a learning difficulty I had prior to the age of 11 been to primary school with my local peers.  Here I picked up the southwest trait for slurring the end of words and dropping my ‘h’ much to the disguised of my upwardly social mobile mother.

At 11 I attended a public school, which specialised in learning difficulties and was encouraged to speak like a gentleman.

At 18 I left home to go to university in an inner city in the north west of England where I was considered posh.  People at home now consider my accent to be northern whilst colleagues may still be surprised to here me slur a word such as ‘furrr’

What I will do is speak to my godson who is living with a very well brought up young girl who ticks all of the ‘officer’ boxes.

The question to ask her is what is the surname of the brothers who used to head the band Oasis (Noel and Liam Gallagher)

I’ve already asked a number of people tonight and its about 50/50 my rendition to a straight Gallagher.  To get this right we need to be asking the right type of English person.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2011, 04:46:52 AM »

Quick update, spoken to my godson and his girlfriend (thanks Robert and Robyn).

Both in answer to the question "what is the surname of the brothers from the band Oasis" said "Gallager".

I think there is a problem with this question as the Brothers Gallagher refer to themselves as that.

Still i'm game to ask more random people if that helps!
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richie conroy

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2011, 02:44:06 PM »

http://www.gallagherclan.org/

maybe this site will help with what u need
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richie conroy

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2011, 02:46:55 PM »

We are an echo of the past


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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2011, 03:01:21 PM »

http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/Gallagher

hope this helps

Shame about the American accent tough!

Does bare out so far my 'research'.  Would be interesting to know if Gerald Gallagher had any Irish lilt in his voice even though he was born and raised in england.  His entry in Wikipedia probably points in the direction of a more clipped english accent, the kind you would associate with Pathe news.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2011, 03:04:20 PM »

How would you say it Richie?  I see your in Liverpool/Merseyside with its tradition of Irish immigrants!
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richie conroy

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2011, 03:17:55 PM »

well my great granddad an grandma r from county mayo Ireland, but my self i pronounce it gall a ger but spell it with the silent h  :D 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2011, 03:20:56 PM »

well my great granddad an grandma r from county mayo Ireland, but my self i pronounce it gall a ger but spell it with the silent h  :D

Thanks, kind of a head ache this as i'm getting about 50/50 so far. 
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richie conroy

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2011, 03:36:46 PM »

Gerald B. Gall'agher  is how it was spell t, in the early 1900's  if i remember correctly
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Chris Johnson

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 03:42:08 PM »

Gerald B. Gall'agher  is how it was spell t, in the early 1900's  if i remember correctly

That could be Gall aher then?  with a silent G or a gh that is somehow aheer?
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richie conroy

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Re: A question for our British members
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 04:01:21 PM »

yer deffo cud be, it's just however the accent pronounces it

for instance scousers say we an scottish say wee if u get my meaning  :)
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