Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?  (Read 41624 times)

Harry Howe, Jr.

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 576
  • Nuclear Physicist(Ret) Pilot(Ret) Scuba(Ret)
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2011, 01:13:50 PM »


With respect to overflying the Island, let's remember that they had just flown about 3000 statute miles (2600 to Howland area then 400 to Gardner) and had no reliable guess about how much fuel they had left.  They would not have wanted to have had to make a "Dead Stick" landing.

Looking at the Island on GoogleEarth, the East side reef flat looks like an International Airport runway, over 200 feet wide and from 2 to 3 miles long.  And, with a wind from the SE it would look like a perfect landing area.
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2011, 01:32:15 PM »

That was my point Harry. But Ric & Co. are the only ones that can speak of the reef/beach/shoreline conditions on Niku. For our pilots out there, think about how and where you  would try to land. Not casting dispersions here-----I think the Electra is there.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Harry Howe, Jr.

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 576
  • Nuclear Physicist(Ret) Pilot(Ret) Scuba(Ret)
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2011, 01:54:55 PM »


Yes, I have no knowledge of the reef flat conditions other than TIGHAR pictures   The East side conditions don't look any worse (or any better) than those near the Ship Wreck.

Assuming that they had enough fuel, at low tide conditions they could have "Taxied"  up to the NC area.  All conjecture of course.

I believe the landing was a rough one and FN suffered a concussion and died within a few days.  I think that he went into the sea, or the lagoon, with the Electra.
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2011, 02:08:33 PM »


Yes, I have no knowledge of the reef flat conditions other than TIGHAR pictures   The East side conditions don't look any worse (or any better) than those near the Ship Wreck.

Assuming that they had enough fuel, at low tide conditions they could have "Taxied"  up to the NC area.  All conjecture of course.

I believe the landing was a rough one and FN suffered a concussion and died within a few days.  I think that he went into the sea, or the lagoon, with the Electra.

OK how many is a few? We have at least 4 days worth of male voice!

He got out of the plane Betty's note book, near bottom
« Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 02:12:17 PM by Chris Johnson »
Logged

h.a.c. van asten

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2011, 02:56:18 PM »

Why did the crew not transmit where they were ? It was easy to find the coordinates from observations of sun , stars and planets .
Logged

Harry Howe, Jr.

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 576
  • Nuclear Physicist(Ret) Pilot(Ret) Scuba(Ret)
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2011, 03:47:40 PM »


Admittedly, I should have been more precise about "a few days", however, it isn't possible to say precisely how long he lived.

I don't remember seeing a date on Betty's notebook telling us just exactly when the transmission  she heard took place.  Was it on 7/4 or 7/5 or 7/6?  Probably not on 7/7 since that was the day of Lambrecht's flyover and he didn't see a plane or wreckage or at least he didn't say so.

If FN suffered a concussion on landing and it obviously went untreated, then who knows how long he survived?  No way to be more precise, maybe it was 4 days, maybe 5.  Really doesn't matter, I'm just expressing an opinion, if that is allowed. 
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2011, 03:54:55 PM »

Boy---if TIGHAR could only find the plane. Sorry----looks like the searh area just got larger.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Don Dollinger

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2011, 03:57:27 PM »

Quote
Why did the crew not transmit where they were ? It was easy to find the coordinates from observations of sun , stars and planets .

A head injury could prevent from Fred being able to star gaze and AFAIK Earhart did not know how to use a sextent.

LTM,

Don
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2011, 06:12:34 PM »

the mystery deepens. When Ric and TIGHAR solve all of this, it will be one of the most amazing stories of our lifetimes.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2011, 01:55:41 AM »


Admittedly, I should have been more precise about "a few days", however, it isn't possible to say precisely how long he lived.

I don't remember seeing a date on Betty's notebook telling us just exactly when the transmission  she heard took place.  Was it on 7/4 or 7/5 or 7/6?  Probably not on 7/7 since that was the day of Lambrecht's flyover and he didn't see a plane or wreckage or at least he didn't say so.

If FN suffered a concussion on landing and it obviously went untreated, then who knows how long he survived?  No way to be more precise, maybe it was 4 days, maybe 5.  Really doesn't matter, I'm just expressing an opinion, if that is allowed.

Of course, just as mine is only an opinion :)

Another read and yes there is no date so this could be day one of the transmissions or day 4.  I still beleive (speculation only as no hard evidence) that FN was not injured badly, but that dosn't account for the lack of navigational information unless these were missed in the transmissions.  Betty's notes do contain numbers that could be coordinates that she may have not heard correctly or scribbled down wrong.  Idle speculation, only FN and AE know the truth and they arn't speaking to anyone credible ;)
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2011, 08:31:15 AM »

I appologize for being hung up on the Electra. I guess my whole theory on Amelia & Fred being on Niku depends on how they got there. Logical thinking says they flew there in the Electra. My distorted way of thinking says lets find factual evidence of the plane to show that it was there. That proves that they flew it there. Whether they landed it at the Norwich City site, or along one of the shorelines to me is irrelevent if we cant show that it was there. How do we know that we have been to the moon? Evidence left behind that we have photographed. We surmise that AE & Fred were on Niku. We know that someone of European decent was there. Items found indicate that AE was there.
Maybe I have the wrong type if inquizitive mind about this. Anything is possible. A ditching in the ocean is possible. I suppose I could make the case that they were seen by some Polynesian natives in a canoe, picked up out of the ocean, and taken to the nearest land mass---Niku. If we can find the plane--or identifiable parts of it---then we show HOW they got to Niku---and that they were THERE. We can then figure out that the NC landing, or a shoreline landing, or any of several other alternatives occured. Ok---What happens if Ric & TIGHAR find an INTACT Electra, submerged off the reef near the 7 site, photograph it and find the landing gear is UP--not extended==like one would think of doing for a ditching? With out a landing, gear down, you would NOT be able to run the engine to recharge the battery for radio use, as has been theorised. Maybe Amelia just ran the battey down using the radio with out running the engine. So --where does that put the 'reported' radio messages--if you cant recharge the battery?
There are so many things about this mystery that intrique me. Logic says that certain things have to happen in order for a conclusion. We know they left Lae, outbound and on course for Howland.
Radio traffic during the night and early morning indicate the plane was airborne, and proceeding to Howland, but the only position report was the the 157/337 sunline report. We assume that means that they were course for Howland, but didnt make it. We theorise that they came across Niku, and landed there. That theory works if we believe the radio messages post disappearence, and they could use the radio.
Something else puzzles me---Betty writes that she heard AE's voice and something like 'Norwich City". I'm wonder why other radios in the pacific alot closer didnt hear anything. Canton Island, Naru, the Itasca, the Japaneese, anyone. Granted, they would have to know the frequency she was using----but with the flight being so well publicised, I would think that alot of people would have been listening for anything. We know the Coast Guard in San Francisco and Hawaii were, and I suspect some ships, and maybe even Pan Am were also.
Someone tell me I'm crazy!
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Don Dollinger

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2011, 09:05:34 AM »

Quote
My main thrust was that Mables message was a fake and that Betty was only guessing that the 'man was hurt'.

Whoa there...I can agree with you that she may have had a bit of a cloudy memory, but what leads you too your conclusion that it was a fake...

Quote
Someone tell me I'm crazy!

Your wish is my command...You're crazy!  ;D :D ;D

LTM,

Don
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 09:43:22 AM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2011, 10:32:05 AM »

thought so!
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Harry Howe, Jr.

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 576
  • Nuclear Physicist(Ret) Pilot(Ret) Scuba(Ret)
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2011, 11:15:30 AM »


Tom
I don't know what the range of their radio was when sending from ground level, but the messages heard at a distance were  probably due to "bounce" or "skip" off of the ionosphere.
As far as the Itasca is concerned , it was over 400 miles away steaming aroun d the NW quadrant "searching" and influencing the later Navy "searchers" as to where to concentrate their "search".

In a previous  post I dated the aerial "search"of Gardner.  as 7/7/37, sorry it was 7/9/37.  my bad

Not crazy, many unanswered questions, and personally I think that TIGHAR is doing a great job seeking the answers.  I really love a good mystery. 8)
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Any other possible landing sites on Niku?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2011, 12:13:14 PM »

Quote
My main thrust was that Mables message was a fake and that Betty was only guessing that the 'man was hurt'.

Whoa there...I can agree with you that she may have had a bit of a cloudy memory, but what leads you too your conclusion that it was a fake...

Fake may be a strong word but my impression was from Rics book "Ric then talks about the apparent radio message picked up by Mabel Larremore – Amarillo Texas where Amelia mentions that the plane is down and that her navigator has a serious injury.  Rics assessment is that it is rare but far from impossible for the message to be real but Mabel’s recollection could be clouded over time."

Quote
Someone tell me I'm crazy!


Your wish is my command...You're crazy!  ;D :D ;D

LTM,

Don
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 

Copyright 2023 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP