Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?  (Read 80979 times)

Monty Fowler

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
  • "The real answer is always the right answer."
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2011, 04:14:21 PM »

Just tossing in my 2 cents on Fred taking off in one of the Norwich City's lifeboats - those things were made out of wood, and were apparently some distance from the water, judging from the photo of the one surviving lifeboat.

How many of you think you could, by yourself, get a many-hundred pound wooden lifeboat out of the bush, down to the beach, across the beach, across the reef flat undamaged and out into the open ocean, in July, at Niku, even if you were in tip-top condtion and had unlimited food and water?

Even for two desperate people , if that looked like the last extremity, the mechanical challenges alone would possibly lead to one or more coral cuts, which would get infected very, very quickly. Toss in dehydration, sunstroke, heatstroke, maybe an overly-curious shark, a jellyfish sting or two ... there are lots of ways to die on Niku. Dragging one of those lifeboats down to the water and trying to launch it would have merely speeded up the process.

LTM,
Monty Fowler
TIGHAR No. 2189CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2011, 04:24:26 PM »

i think a few Tighar members wud like to push u out to sea in a sinking plane aswell  ;D
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 6009
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2011, 04:48:12 PM »

i think a few Tighar members wud like to push u out to sea in a sinking plane aswell  ;D

Here's a suggestion for you Richie.  Before you speculate about what TIGHAR members would like to do how about becoming one yourself?  Monty has been a dedicated member of TIGHAR for almost 14 years.
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2011, 04:54:39 PM »

i werent on about monty i was on about gary lapook comment on a few girls wud like to push him out in sinking plane

an soon as i have money available to donate am definitely gonna
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2011, 04:56:27 PM »

sorry my bad it werent even him who said that so my apologise to gary
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Monty Fowler

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1078
  • "The real answer is always the right answer."
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2011, 05:37:27 PM »


... Monty has been a dedicated member of TIGHAR for almost 14 years.

Oh thanks for getting that thought stuck in my head! *goes off to ponder the mysteries of life while cracking open a Monty Python Pale Ale on this Thanksgiving eve*

LTM,
Monty Fowler
TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
Logged

Brad Beeching

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2011, 10:09:56 AM »

Since we are merely playing the "what if" game, how about this:
After sustaining fairly serious injuries in a very rough landing, Fred and Amelia are effectively trapped inside the aircraft. Amelia cannot reach the rear of the aircraft to retrieve the correct charts and instrumentation to allow them to positively identify where they have come down. After a time, Amelia is able to get free and find the name of the ship on the reef, and discover that the aircraft is able to run the right engine allowing her to recharge the nearly flat batteries. This allows further use of the radio. A few days pass, the airplane is being washed back and forth and Amelia cannot get Fred out of the cockpit hatch due to his injuries as well as her own. His condition continues to deteriorate until he passes away and Amelia abandons the wreckage to the sea. During the days that the aircraft was still transmitting, Amelia is forced to try to find help on the island, finding none she begins to understand what awaits her... (cue sinister music) ::)
Brad

#4327R
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2011, 11:54:20 AM »

But it appears that Fred is still with us when Betty hears them and may also be able to get out of the plane!
Logged

Brad Beeching

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 158
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 01:20:57 PM »

I was simply putting a story together... one that I made up as I went along, (basically wasting electrons) Has something surfaced that leads us to believe Fred got out of the plane? The call Betty heard best fit the radio log on the 5th. The Colorado flyby was on the 9th, this story could have happened anytime between the crash and when the plane was submerged. IF something like this happened to our intrepid travelers, it might help explain why a mans voice was heard on some transmissions and a woman on others, (as well as both on still other transmissions).

Who knows? maybe Fred died in the plane and Amelia abandoned it because of the ahhh... smell...  :-\
Brad

#4327R
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2011, 01:50:28 PM »

maybe, maybe not but suppose we'll never know  ;)
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2011, 04:56:49 PM »

because if u re-read bettys note's, on final page she says or thinks fred has got of plane an amelia is prepareing to leave the plane her self

 :)

 
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Evan McIntosh

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »

It seems from the information posted here, that Fred Noonan suffered one or more severe injuries during the landing. From the recorded radio transmissions, it sounds that he was in shock. This could occur from blood loss through scalp or other lacerations or long-bone fractures. he may have also sustained a skull fracture, subdural hematoma or traumatic subarachnoid hemorrhage. he may also have been confused and panicking from hypoxia perhaps secondary to a pneumothorax (or collapsed lung). It seems to me, that he may not have been physically able to leave the aircraft on his own, and Amelia Earhart may have not been physically able to get him out of the plane and to the shore. I suspect then, that he died within the cockpit shortly after landing. It is possible that Amelia established a campsite at the opposite end of the island so as to stay as far away from the plane as possible. Consider the psychological trauma of having her friend and navigator dead in the cockpit. I think most people would avoid the aircraft after something like that. Perhaps she ventured back sparingly, and at some psychological cost, to retrieve as many useful items as she could. Also, i don't know much about sextants but I assume they have a lens in them. Could that lens be used as a magnifying glass to start fires?
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2012, 04:34:20 PM »

I'm no expert but if you look at the post loss signals then there is evidence of a male sending signals from the Gardenr/Niku area.

Fred may be dead but on the days in 37 he was much alive (but not happy?)
Logged

Gary LaPook

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1624
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2012, 04:51:45 PM »

It seems from the information posted here, that Fred Noonan suffered one or more severe injuries during the landing. From the recorded radio transmissions, it sounds that he was in shock. This could occur from blood loss through scalp or other lacerations or long-bone fractures. he may have also sustained a skull fracture, subdural hematoma or traumatic subarachnoid hemorrhage. he may also have been confused and panicking from hypoxia perhaps secondary to a pneumothorax (or collapsed lung). It seems to me, that he may not have been physically able to leave the aircraft on his own, and Amelia Earhart may have not been physically able to get him out of the plane and to the shore. I suspect then, that he died within the cockpit shortly after landing. It is possible that Amelia established a campsite at the opposite end of the island so as to stay as far away from the plane as possible. Consider the psychological trauma of having her friend and navigator dead in the cockpit. I think most people would avoid the aircraft after something like that. Perhaps she ventured back sparingly, and at some psychological cost, to retrieve as many useful items as she could. Also, i don't know much about sextants but I assume they have a lens in them. Could that lens be used as a magnifying glass to start fires?
Remember the whole idea that Noonan was injured comes from only one reported reception by Betty in Florida, and there is no other confirmation of that report. So your careful medical diagnosis rests on some pretty shaky ground.

This is from the Tighar analysis of radio reports:

------------------------------------------------


142 H - -
Identifier    52130KK
Z Time/Date    2130 to 2315 July 5 (Date uncertain; believed to be July 5 based on signal
propagation and other factors)
Local Time/Date    1630 to 1815 EST July 5
Gardner Time/Date    1030 to 1215 July 5
Agency/Person    Betty Klenck
Location    St. Petersburg, Florida
Freq (kHz)    24840 (4th harmonic of Earhart’s day frequency – 6210 kHz).
Content    See sources below.
Sources    Research paper Betty’s Notebook, on TIGHAR website; research paper Harmony
and Power (revised), on TIGHAR website; Finding Amelia, p. 172.
Probability    Varied from 0.0013 to 0.00000067 during the period
Qual Factors    Betty was extensively interviewed by TIGHAR, and key elements of her notebook
relating to occult information – facts Betty could not have known from sources other than what
she heard on the radio – have been validated. Details are available on the TIGHAR website.
Credibility    Credible

------------------------------------------------------
Note, even if the report were true, it was not received until July 5,1937, three days after the possible landing on Gardner. There is no reason to be so certain that Noonan was injured in the landing since the plane would have had to have ended up standing up on its legs in order to operate the radio so no, or little, damage to the plane and its occupants. Plus he could have fallen wading on the reef three days after the landing, falling and hitting his head, so no reason to think he couldn't go ashore at the beginning.

And look at the probability of this propagation, assigned to this reception by TIGHAR, 0.0013 to 0.00000067, somewhere between 1 chance in 769 to one chance in 1,492,537 and this only after utilizing the Rube Goldberg method of grasping at harmonics so there is reason to doubt that Betty even heard Earhart. There are other reasons that call Betty's reception report into doubt.

I have attached Brandenberg's original analysis of the probability of Betty hearing Earhart. This shows only a one chance in 878 and that only existed for the first half hour. In the next hour the probability of Betty actually hearing Earhart dropped off to only 1 chance in 344,827!  For the last 15 minute period the probability increased to 1 chance in 50,000. The current listing for the Betty reception doesn't break it down into these three periods but it makes sense that the periods mentioned in the first Brandenberg table also hold true for the current listing so after only the first half hour that the chance of Betty continuing to hear Earhart dropped off to the new estimate contained in the listing of one chance in one-million-four-hundred-ninty-two- thousand-five-hundred and thirty seven (1,492,537) yet the claim is that Betty heard Earhart for an hour and 45 minutes. So do you really believe that she heard that Noonan was injured?


gl
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 03:52:45 AM by Gary LaPook »
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2012, 04:56:03 PM »

For once I agree with the esteemed Mr GLP that the whole FN injured/near death/etc come from one source, Bettys note book.

Reading 'Finding Amelia' I found many incidences of Radio reception from a male.  My argument/thought is that FN is incapacitaded ref Betty would NOT have been able to make those calls?

Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Up
 

Copyright 2022 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP