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Author Topic: Next Expedition  (Read 33704 times)

Tom Swearengen

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 10:46:23 AM »

Not that it means anything, but The History Channel had a very good program on the Atlantis "Discovery" Sunday nite. Seems to me that they have more funds than Discovery channel. Looking for Atlantis would be VERY difficult, and expensive.
Another thought, we know that there have been earthquakes and tsunamis in the pacific since 1937, but we may now know the severity. If there had been something similiar on Niku during the past 70 years, if may have moved all the evidence to somewhere else. However, there should be evidence of overwash in the 7 site area, as well as other locations. The wave action might even have helped TIGHAR in the preservation of the Electra parts off the reef.
Outbound wave action could have pulled the wreckage off the reef ledge, and into deeper water, but not at the landing location, but "somewhere" else around the ocean bottom. I guess all it takes is time and money.
Tom
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Dan Swift

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 10:57:14 AM »

Good point!  All of the aircraft pieces will be substantially lighter in weight than for example the pieces off the Norwich City.  And with the general current flow there to the south, what's left of AE's Electra could be intangled with the ship's debris, covered by much of the stern of the ship, or even further south than the ship's debris area.  So, you are right, the search area could be a bit larger than straight down the slope off the NW reef.  
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 12:46:13 PM »

If I understand Tsunamis, the wave action starts on the sea bed, and the water is moved upward and outward from the origin. Looking back on some of those instances in the past years, it would seem to me that if Niku were affected during one of these events, the wave current "might" life the Electra parts, and move them to wherever their weight overcame the current speed, and resettled on the botton, or on the reef, of on the shipwreck debris, or quite possibly, none of the above.
Having thought about this, my theory that the Electra is off the reef may be false, although I certainly hope not. If it was there, then 70+ years of storms, and at least several tsunamis probably have moved it. So, my appologies to Ric, and the TIGHAR TEAM, for being such a pain about looking for the Electra off the NW reef. It might just be a case of looking for some aluminum in a big ocean.
Someone tell me I'm wrong, and the Electra is safe and sound, in 1500Ft of water, on the sandy bottom, in virtually mint condition, just waiting for Ric to find it.
Tom
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 01:29:04 PM »

Quote
Someone tell me I'm wrong, and the Electra is safe and sound, in 1500Ft of water, on the sandy bottom, in virtually mint condition, just waiting for Ric to find it.

If the reports of various villagers are any indication then it would be far from mint condition as it appears various parts of it washed up on shore, bit by bit, another part of it was ripped off and stuck in the reef face.  Lastly, it was supposed to be quite buoyant with all the empty fuel tanks inside the cockpit.  It may have floated quite some distance before finally going to Davy Jones locker.  If that is the case, you are now looking for a very small plane in a very large ocean and if ever found it would probably be by dumb luck by someone looking for something else entirely.  Sad part being, someone could find it and overlook it for what it is after taking a thrashing on the reef severe enough to rip the airframe from its moorings it may be wholly unrecognizable as an airframe.

LTM,

Don
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2011, 11:26:09 AM »

Yahoo report today that Sir Richard Branson is going to explore several deep sea sites. Gee---as an adventurer, wonder if he would be interested in taking his submirsible to Niku to look around for the Electra?
Just thinking out loud.
Tom
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Tim Collins

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2011, 11:51:46 AM »

...

Of course if TIGHAR finds the definitive skeleton in the closet, SOMEBODY will be a willing-enough skeptic to claim that there's no way to know that THOSE bones are THE ACTUAL bones sent by Gallagher...

...

I was thinking the same thing. The only thing that DNA testing would prove is that EA's bones are in Fiji. Unless ironclad evidence proving chain of custody could be found, I can't imagine there'd be any way to difinitively connect them to Gardner, even if they are THE bones. What then? 

I'm still banking on smoking gun evidence being found in situ on or at Niku. (not that I haven't already been convinced)
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2011, 12:45:00 PM »

Quote
I was thinking the same thing. The only thing that DNA testing would prove is that EA's bones are in Fiji. Unless ironclad evidence proving chain of custody could be found, I can't imagine there'd be any way to difinitively connect them to Gardner, even if they are THE bones. What then?

As a big fan of conspiracy theories I once heard a quote on one of the many documentaries I have watched on the assignation of JFK that basically said that "so many theories have been floated throughout the years that when the real truth comes out no one will believe it."  I think that type of smoking gun coupled with the documentation that TIGHAR has uncovered concerning Gallagher finding, boxing, and sending in the bones would convince all but the most die hard conspiracy theorists.  To them the truth doesn't matter the only thing that matters is continuation of the conspiracy. ::)

LTM,

Don
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2011, 08:12:28 PM »

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Unless ironclad evidence proving chain of custody could be found, I can't imagine there'd be any way to difinitively connect them to Gardner, even if they are THE bones.

If a collection of bones is found that match the list described by Dr. Hoodless, I think that that would provide a pretty solid link to Gardner Island.  And, if they should be found contained in a kanawa box... !   
Jim Stoveken
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2011, 05:44:26 AM »

Remember that Hoodless gives us not only the names of the bones but their measurements and a description of their condition. 
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Hector M Zapata

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Tourist Expedition, good or bad??
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 10:36:34 AM »

Hi,

I did not know that there are tourist expeditionss to niku and also to kanton, is this good or bad for ae expeditions? Is is possible that "tourism" can take, destroy, remove, misplace important evidence??

Or, is it possible that tighar take advantage of this and send member to this location? visiting time is very short, maybe not usefull.

HZ

May/June 2012 Phoenix Expedition
Depart Apia (Samoa) on Wednesday 30th May 2012
This voyage includes: Swains (American Samoa),
Enderbury, Kanton, Orona (Hull) & Nikumaroro (Gardner) and the Tokelau Islands
Voyage finishes at Apia (Samoa) on Friday the 15th June 2012
Total of 17 days
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Tourist Expedition, good or bad??
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2011, 11:06:45 AM »

I did not know that there are tourist expeditionss to niku and also to kanton, is this good or bad for ae expeditions? Is is possible that "tourism" can take, destroy, remove, misplace important evidence??
In addition to saying that for $3900 you'll get to camp overnight on the island, this expedition company describes an irresistible Niku:
Quote
Gardner Island: Possibly the final resting place of Amelia Earhart, but we can not guarantee you we will find her crashed Lockheed plane.

We can find you plenty of diving with the manta rays and sharks. We definitely recommend a trip around the lagoon in our inflatable boat, bring your snorkeling gear for sure.

Be careful, this is the sort of magical atoll that you will fall in love with - probably at first sight - a green speck of paradise in the mighty blue Pacific

LTM,

Bruce
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2011, 01:48:03 PM »

Thanks for the heads-up on this.  We'll look into it.  Tourist visits to Niku are a big concern.
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Alan Williams

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2011, 02:22:05 PM »

Just my two-cents worth...

Thanks, Chris, for pointing out historical reference to commercial operators putting visitors on the ground on Niku. First thought that crosses my mind is, as much as we love our AE mystery, if the Kiribati central gov gives them permission to land, well then, they have permission to land.

Yeah, it's a desolate place, but who really knows who has sailed to and explored the place in recent times... I'll bet after the Discovery show at least one sail boat has detoured, even if not to touch the ground, to at least see Niku from afar.

I'd bet if the operators were approached politely with the obvious concerns thoughtfully described (perhaps without TOO much information) they would be happy to leave as much untouched as possible. (Then again, who knows, maybe that missing aircraft wheel has become uncovered again and a keen eye could now spot it?  :D )

« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:28:40 PM by Alan Williams »
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Next Expedition
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2011, 07:33:26 PM »

Wouldn't it be something if it turns out to be a "Brit" that first found AE in 1940 and then along comes Sir Richard Branson and finds "her-L10" again in 20ll?
Ted Campbell
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