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Author Topic: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B  (Read 65299 times)

Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2021, 03:48:29 PM »

Well, the crabs will pretty much try to carry off anything they can that has any kind of food value - tin foil, wrappers, cardboard food boxes, etc, but I don't think they have much interest in a sextant box by itself unless there was some residual food still attached.  I don't see crabs moving a sextant box very far, and a bigger box would be very difficult for them to move.  When everything dries out, they'd loose interest.

The Gigdies are a conundrum.  On one hand they seem to be well crafted, which does not speak castaway to me.  On the other hand, we can't figure out what they were used for, so could be related. 

Personally, I think they were used to hold screening in place on a wood frame, with an action where the teeth are rotated into place to hold the screen.  That says colony to me, and I'm imagining the island carpenter making a screens for "Gallagher's House" at the 7 site, and using some aluminum he found to make the screen holding gidgies. 

Then there are the US made wood screws, so that shifts my thoughts to screens at the Coast Guard station.

Andrew

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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2021, 04:38:46 PM »

The possible scenario I was considering was there may have been a second wood box, possibly a toolbox configured by American aircraft mechanics to be strapped or secured to the plane by the gidgies. They would have access to both aluminum skin and American screws. The theory being the box was taken off the plane and used by Earhart as a food container after becoming a castaway.
One of the problems with that theory is no 2nd box was found in the search by the Colonist.  But if small enough, and it had food in it, maybe Coconut crabs carried it off after the gidgies were removed. Or it was burned.

We now know the Sextant box had nothing to do with Earhart.  It may still have a relation to the gidgies.

Another thing that bothers me about the box in the photo of AE and FN under the tail is that box has a strap that we can see is not centered on any axis of it. If it is the only strap (the box looks kind of small to need two straps), carrying the box  would be very awkward. If the strap was just intended to hold the box to a web or stringer while sitting on the cabin floor that would not be an issue. It could be a can though.  Would be interested to know what work they were doing to the tail wheel.
3971R
 
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Don White

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2021, 07:48:37 PM »

Studying that photo closely including clicking on it to enlarge it, I don't see a box with a strap. Maybe I am missing something. I do see, at the left edge and cut off by the edge, what looks to me like a square tin of oil, possibly with an attached handle to make pouring easier.

There are two white cylinders I can't identify. At first I thought they were tea mugs (as the empty Coke bottle show that the people were enjoying some refreshment in the shade of the wing) but the upper one looks more like it might be an open tin of grease. This might indicate what was being done to the tail wheel, which has been lifted up on stacked blocks of wood so it can be moved while being worked on.

Most interesting in light of the present discussion, there is a pair of tin snips on the ground, such as would be used to cut thin sheet metal, such as aluminum. What service on the tail wheel would require those?

LTM,
Don
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2021, 08:48:51 AM »

Don, I don’t think you missed anything.  You gave a very helpful breakdown. The “box” could be a tin or “can” as others have said.
If you imagine the light colored area where a fastener might be as not actually being anything (a possible digital artifact), then to me the handle for pouring or strap becomes a possible cap resting on the concrete in the background .
Years ago I ordered 2 additional scans of this photo from Purdue. Each one having a higher resolution. Each one of the 3 images showed something there but were simply different blurs.
Despite all the tools around I now don’t think that box/ can is a toolbox.  Maybe there is one just off frame. I’ve searched other photos on the Purdue Archives for what might be a toolbox and there are a few possibilities. One of them looks like a large flimsy cardboard box is being used. A possible weight savings but not a very secure thing if just placed at the back of the plane.
3971R
 
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 09:21:44 AM by Greg Daspit »
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2021, 09:57:53 AM »

"Would be interested to know what work they were doing to the tail wheel."

Possibly working on the swivel bearings in the tailwheel strut assembly?
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2021, 11:49:49 AM »

In addition to a tool kit, the Luke Field inventory lists a 5lb and 10lb can of mobilgrease. 
3971R
 
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Don White

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2021, 08:51:15 PM »

The (approximately) gallon-size oil can at the left edge has sides that come up above the top, and the cap is just at the edge of the frame. There are photos of Earhart and Noonan next to the airplane (loading or unloading) that show this type of can. What I haven't seen elsewhere is a can with a handle on the side as this one appears to have. This includes my 55 years of experience around 1920s-30s cars and things that go with them, and some web research I did just now looking for images. Whether it is part of the can, or an attached strap around it, or something else looking like part of it, I can't say for certain, but it looks like something attached to the can, based on reflections I can see (I enlarged the image as far as possible, which is quite a lot). It seems like it would be a useful addition to a big oil can, to hold when pouring, and it's where I would want it to be, where the cap would be at the upper edge of the front (it's easier to control the pouring in that position). The airplane (I assume) needed engine oil, grease for wheel bearings and anything else that was greased (possibly a different grease from wheel bearing grease), hydraulic fluid, and whatever fluid the landing gear shocks used. They had at least some of this along for at least some of the trip.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #67 on: July 31, 2021, 02:25:54 PM »

https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/904/rec/389
Don, Is the photo in the link above the photo you are referencing with same type of cans? 

Regarding the sides extending up like on a can.  Before I had thought the shadow of the extended edge of one side was a shadow of a white cylindrical object on top of the container. And a white label was on top of the box. I can see it being the shadow of the edge of the can extending up though. And what I thought was a label just the shiny top of the can.

I've never seen a can with a thick(not the wire type) handle or strap on the side either. I have seen many with thick metal handles on the top.  I imagine a thick protruding handle on the side would not be good for packing units from the manufacturer in a larger case for shipping.

So if it is a handle, it seems like a custom modification.  Maybe this modification includes some kind of wrap that is hiding labels of the can as well. The offset location does make sense for pouring.  To be related to the artifact, a wrap around the can would have to be thicker than it appears possible due to the length of the wood screws. And it would make sense if the can had something you could drink. Maybe for the cup you noticed, a stretch I know. It does seem like they really want to get out of the sun and were hydrating.
https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/327/rec/348

3971R
 
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 03:00:30 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Matt Revington

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2021, 04:57:02 AM »

I think the photo of AE holding the Mobil grease can is the one that Tighar used to estimate the length of her arm bones and was part of Dr Jantz’s analysis that provided strong evidence that bone measurements were consistent with AE’s bones.  As part of that research Tighar obtained one of those cans.
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Don White

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2021, 02:32:49 PM »

https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/904/rec/389
Don, Is the photo in the link above the photo you are referencing with same type of cans? 

No, the can in the under-the-wing photo looks like a gallon can such as you see today with solvents in it. Think of a can of mineral spirits at your local paint store. The can of Mobilubricant held by Amelia is square seen from above, and not as tall. It also has a wire bail handle and a large pry-out lid to the grease can be scooped out. At the far right on the ground in that same photo is a gallon "paint" can also containing lubricant, and inside the airplane can be seen what looks to me like a quart of engine oil. As I recall in this picture they were removing things "not wanted on voyage" for the last legs, to save weight. It appears that they had brought along some spare parts as well as some supplies that they could not be certain of finding en route. This is interesting (that they carried supplies such as heavy cans of grease), since their stops were often places with aircraft service facilities, of which they made use as needed.

I've never seen a can with a thick(not the wire type) handle or strap on the side either. I have seen many with thick metal handles on the top.  I imagine a thick protruding handle on the side would not be good for packing units from the manufacturer in a larger case for shipping.

That hadn't occurred to me, that the handle would interfere with packing, but makes sense why handles would only be on the top.

So if it is a handle, it seems like a custom modification. Maybe this modification includes some kind of wrap that is hiding labels of the can as well. The offset location does make sense for pouring.  To be related to the artifact, a wrap around the can would have to be thicker than it appears possible due to the length of the wood screws. And it would make sense if the can had something you could drink. Maybe for the cup you noticed, a stretch I know. It does seem like they really want to get out of the sun and were hydrating.
https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/327/rec/348

I don't think the cup was used for drinking -- it just looked at first glance like a tea mug. And I'm thinking there might have been a removable strap around the large can, but again I've not seen those either. So I don't know what it is.

LTM,
Don
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Don White

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2021, 02:40:42 PM »

I’ve searched other photos on the Purdue Archives for what might be a toolbox and there are a few possibilities. One of them looks like a large flimsy cardboard box is being used. A possible weight savings but not a very secure thing if just placed at the back of the plane.

I went looking through all the photos in the Purdue Archive online for anything that showed cans or boxes or whatever. I did see the one with a cardboard box apparently containing tools. I doubt they would routinely keep tools in a cardboard box. What it looks like to me is that the spare parts they needed came in that box, and they put the tools they would need in the box with the parts to keep everything together. I do this when I'm working on a car, especially when I am not working in or near my own workshop.

I was interested to see, in the photos, that her fuel drums were stenciled with her name. Also note the variety of people working on or around aircraft in the far reaches of Empire.

LTM,
Don
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2021, 07:17:43 AM »

David Billings has these thoughts:

In the photo, look over AE's right shoulder and by her right arm.  There are skid marks on the concrete.

Could it possibly be that the Tailwheel castoring Lock-pin refused to release after landing and roll-out and that in parking the Electra in a right-hand turn she deposited rubber (or possibly worse) and/or bent the Lock-pin ?

Could the mystery box on the extreme left be a toolbox, specifically containing 'special tools' required for servicing the tailwheel assembly ?

The back-end has been lifted up and rests on the jacking/tie-down point.  I suspect Lock-pin trouble....
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2021, 09:45:10 AM »

David Billings has these thoughts: ...


The back-end has been lifted up and rests on the jacking/tie-down point.  I suspect Lock-pin trouble....


It may be pareidolia, but I think someone is lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point while the other three folks are enjoying the shade.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2021, 09:59:05 AM »

It may be pareidolia, but I think someone is lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point while the other three folks are enjoying the shade.

Unless the mechanic in the foreground has a very long and oddly jointed left arm there is definitely someone lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Artifact 2-6-S-03A & 2-6-S-03B
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2021, 11:25:13 AM »

This may seem like an odd question but how did they flush and how did they wash hands in the lav?
3971R
 
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