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Author Topic: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937  (Read 444038 times)

Bill Mangus

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #480 on: September 04, 2012, 04:21:17 PM »

Re:  Beachpeople2010.jpg.

Talk about a picture being worth 10K words!  The steep slope and large chunks of coral would be hard to climb with any kind of load from the plane.  Curious about the top of the slope.  Is the top the edge of any storm surge/high tide line or does it wash over the top when it blows really bad?

Instead of Ric plus two, visualize Amelia and Fred sitting in that same spot 75 years ago realizing NR16020 has gone over the edge.  What now?

Do you by chance have a picture from that same spot looking out over the reef toward the open ocean?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #482 on: September 04, 2012, 06:23:39 PM »

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Letters/LambrechtGoerner.pdf

The above link is broken.

Moderators: many of the links in http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Letters.html appear to be broken.

The first link worked for me just now.

If you'd like to go through the .../Letters.html and send me a list of what doesn't work in a personal message, I'll double-check them.

Me: Win 7 x64, Firefox 16.0 beta.

LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #483 on: September 04, 2012, 06:50:01 PM »

Do you by chance have a picture from that same spot looking out over the reef toward the open ocean?

Ask and ye shall receive.

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Doug Giese

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #484 on: September 04, 2012, 06:53:43 PM »

Moderators: many of the links in http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Letters.html appear to be broken.
Sorry Doug, but it must be something in your computer configuration.

Yep, my problem. Firefox updated to 15.0 in the last couple of days and my pdf add-on silently broke. I downloaded "Save as PDF 1.5" and all is good again.
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Doug
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #485 on: September 04, 2012, 06:55:59 PM »

But guessing about what she might have done, from choosing the reef over the lagoon, to what she was thinking about stranded or sinking as others suggest, is what keeps the mystery alive.

I guess that's where you and I differ.  I'm not interested in keeping the mystery alive.  I'm interested in solving it.

So I agree Talking about a sand sos, is indeed a waste of time. But a harmless waste of time from the real world.

For some of us this IS the real world.  If you're looking for some place to waste time please find another hobby.
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Bill Mangus

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #486 on: September 04, 2012, 07:31:18 PM »

Re: 2010 Beach-Seaward Scene

Thanks Ric!  That sets the scene nicely.  So behind you, somewhere along maybe a 100-150 yard stretch of "beach" is the postulated "Camp Zero"?

Does the scaveola wall start right at the top of the slope?
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Bob Lanz

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #487 on: September 04, 2012, 07:57:12 PM »

Do you by chance have a picture from that same spot looking out over the reef toward the open ocean?

Ask and ye shall receive.


Good Lord Ric, was that the Niku garbage dump?  Was there that much debris on all those beaches or whatever you call that area.  Does not look very inviting.
Doc
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #488 on: September 04, 2012, 08:17:51 PM »

Do you by chance have a picture from that same spot looking out over the reef toward the open ocean?

Ask and ye shall receive.

I think even my old, worn out eyes do perceive a few "pot holes" here and there.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #489 on: September 04, 2012, 08:20:14 PM »

Does the scaveola wall start right at the top of the slope?

Pretty much.  We were sitting under the tree in the attached satellite photo.  There's about a hundred meters of scaevola between there and the buka forest where there's decent shade.  The scaevola is patchy, not a solid wall, but finding a route from the buka forest to the beach is like finding your way through a maze. 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #490 on: September 04, 2012, 08:22:49 PM »

Was there that much debris on all those beaches or whatever you call that area.  Does not look very inviting.

There's a depressing amount of trash on all the beaches.
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Doug Giese

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #491 on: September 04, 2012, 08:32:43 PM »

There's about a hundred meters of scaevola between there and the buka forest where there's decent shade ... finding a route from the buka forest to the beach is like finding your way through a maze.
Out of curiosity, how long did it take to traverse the 100m? In the helicopter video you remarked how long it took several people near the Seven Site to cross the vegetation there.

Perhaps on the next trip you could convince a couple of people to simulate AE/FN's lack of sleep, forced landing, injuries?,  about a week with minimal or no water/food, then time them to see how long it would take them to make the same trip  (they'd have to do it several times for statistical significance). Any guess how long it would take them?
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Doug
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #492 on: September 04, 2012, 09:00:28 PM »

Out of curiosity, how long did it take to traverse the 100m?

We didn't go back all the way back into the buka.  No reason to (at that time). On Niku, you don't go bashing through the scaevola without a good reason.

Perhaps on the next trip you could convince a couple of people to simulate AE/FN's lack of sleep, forced landing, injuries?,  about a week with minimal or no water/food, then time them to see how long it would take them to make the same trip  (they'd have to do it several times for statistical significance). Any guess how long it would take them?

We do a pretty good simulation of those conditions anyway. ;D  How long would it take?  My guess would be maybe 15 minutes.
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Bob Lanz

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #493 on: September 04, 2012, 09:16:02 PM »

There's about a hundred meters of scaevola between there and the buka forest where there's decent shade ... finding a route from the buka forest to the beach is like finding your way through a maze.
Out of curiosity, how long did it take to traverse the 100m? In the helicopter video you remarked how long it took several people near the Seven Site to cross the vegetation there.

Perhaps on the next trip you could convince a couple of people to simulate AE/FN's lack of sleep, forced landing, injuries?,  about a week with minimal or no water/food, then time them to see how long it would take them to make the same trip  (they'd have to do it several times for statistical significance). Any guess how long it would take them?


Doug, would you like me to call Ric and  ask him when the next trip is going to be?  Perhaps you would like to be one of the volunteers.
Doc
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Doug Giese

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Re: FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937
« Reply #494 on: September 04, 2012, 11:33:50 PM »

Doug, would you like me to call Ric and  ask him when the next trip is going to be?  Perhaps you would like to be one of the volunteers.
LOL, not as a lab rat, but thanks for asking. I'm sure the trips are tough, but rewarding. The one thing I was wondering about the trips was how the Mother Ship anchored when the seafloor drops away so fast?

I was primarily curious how long it would take a castaway, possibly injured, sleep/water/food deprived, maybe suffering from seafood poisoning/dysentery/dehydration/sunburn, yet incredibly motivated, to get from a well protected area to the shore after hearing search planes. 15 minutes is faster than I expected. There's been a lot of discussion about why AE/FN weren't seen. I was interested in a quantitative estimate from someone rested and fed (or maybe not!) who has actually tried to move through the vegetation on that specific island. The time to get into a position to be seen would reduce the window and probability of detection. I don't know how the standard tables for probability of detection were estimated, but would presume they don't account for extended periods of time for the searchee to get to an area where they might be seen.

The West/lee side of the island would have been unbearable.  It would seem that a castaway would want to move well away from the direct sun, glaring white sand/coral, and reflections off the water to a protected spot as much as possible, yet remain close to the aircraft and easily seen shipwreck. Moving inland would of course have to be balanced against the discomfort of even more stagnant breezes and longer time to get back to the shore.

The one thing I haven't read in the forum, but is a real issue, is sunburn from both direct and reflected light. Even here in San Diego (32.7N lat) both can be intense. I've seen people on the water terribly burnt just by reflected light while under sun shades. I've seen people turn lobster red from sunburn in the tropics. It's a secondary issue for sure, but if you've ever had a bad sunburn it's very painful to move (been there, done that). It could have affected the castaways, particularly those not acclimated to the intense equatorial sun.
------
Doug
 
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