FAQ: Colorado / Lambrecht Search, 9 July 1937

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

I'm copying this post from Jeff to this thread from its original location.

Jeff did not supply the source of this picture, but it corresponds to what I would expect to see from a Vought 03U-3 Corsair.

This is the view from the same model of plane Lambrecht overflew gardner Island in. Notice how the forward view is obscured by engine+prop. If you followed the surf line around Gardner Island you wouldn't see what was directly in front of you. Your observer behind you would have a better view but again, not a forward view. Only by looking over the side of the plane would you see a plane wreck on the surf line but, if you are flying along the surf line whatever was on the surf line would be in front of, underneath or behind you. You would have a great view of the Island, scrub, trees, lagoon etc... IMHO there is a possibilty the plane on the reef was missed by looking for plane wreckage on land and, the limited visibility offered from the search planes flying along the surf line. Compare this view to that of the tour of Niku in the helio with the nice un-obstructed plexiglass panoramic views to the front.IMHO
http://youtu.be/DL9FGsvB3E8

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Her'e the link to the video where the still from a plane of the same type as the search planes from the Colorado came from. Sideways observation looks like the best from this airplane type. The pilot has a great view of the engine/prop and wings, the observer has a stunning view of the tailplane assembly. Sideways observation was the way to go. IMHO

http://youtu.be/0SornVVsCkc

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

How much junk and wreckage was strewn about the place from the wreck of the SS Norwich City at the time of the rescue planes overflight? Would the Electra wreckage be envisaged as being part of said NC wreckage and not given a second look? Depends on what condition it was in and how much was actually visible at the time I guess. IMHO

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

Her'e the link to the video where the still from a plane of the same type as the search planes from the Colorado came from. Sideways observation looks like the best from this airplane type. The pilot has a great view of the engine/prop and wings, the observer has a stunning view of the tailplane assembly. Sideways observation was the way to go. IMHO

http://youtu.be/0SornVVsCkc

Thanks for the frame capture and the link to the original, Jeff. 

It makes sense that looking sideways gave them the best field of vision.

[Gary LaPook]

Her'e the link to the video where the still from a plane of the same type as the search planes from the Colorado came from. Sideways observation looks like the best from this airplane type. The pilot has a great view of the engine/prop and wings, the observer has a stunning view of the tailplane assembly. Sideways observation was the way to go. IMHO

http://youtu.be/0SornVVsCkc

That is a feature of every airplane (with some very unusual exceptions) that the nose blocks the view of the ground directly in front of the plane. Yet, searches have been conduced from airplanes for many years so it is a problem that has been dealt with by using different techniques to ensure complete search coverage.

gl

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

That is a feature of every airplane (with some very unusual exceptions) that the nose blocks the view of the ground directly in front of the plane. Yet, searches have been conduced from airplanes for many years so it is a problem that has been dealt with by using different techniques to ensure complete search coverage.

That's very true Gary. One of the drawbacks of catapault/crane launched planes was that they were invariably single engine (with a couple of exceptions) but, you can only use what's available at the time and, in the area. As time was crucial in this instance, off went the Colorados Corsairs.
It is interesting to note that from the mid 1930's to today the development of air sea rescue and maritime patrol favoured multi-engined (wing mounted) with all round observation capabilities and long range. The Consolidated PBY, Martin Mariner, Short Sunderland, Supermarine Walrus (one engine) etc... examples of the fit for purpose development, all excellent in this role but, can't be launched from a ship (excludeing aircraft carriers although I'm sure I've seen the Walrus launched from a ship though :-\)
So, they did the best they could with what they had at the time IMHO

[Chris Austin]

I'm sure I've seen the Walrus launched from a ship though :-\)

The Walrus was standard equipment on R.N. ships from light cruisers upwards. Oddly, from it's appearance, it was capable of aerobatics. :o

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Manufactured and designed by Supermarine who went on to build the Spitfire, our life saver. The Spitfire was quite agile too  ;)

[Chris Austin]

Both by Mitchell; the man was certainly talented.

[Gary LaPook]

Manufactured and designed by Supermarine who went on to build the Spitfire, our life saver. The Spitfire was quite agile too  ;)

Not to rob the Spitfire of her place (or presume to know your country's history better than you would), but my understanding has been that a great 'secret' was that the Hurricane was actually the mightier contributor in that effort by her greater numbers and as a solid survivor?

LTM -

Maybe, but the Spitfire was prettier.

gl

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

That's right Jeff, the Hurricane was deemed to have played second fiddle to the Spitfire, unfairly in my opinion but, I guess it was a case of 'horses for courses'. The spitfire was more of a match for the Luftwaffe fighter escorts so was used primarily in this role but, it still played a large part in destroying the main bomber streams. On the other hand the Hurricane was deemed to be less effective against the fighter escorts so it's primary role was to attack the main bomber streams but, it could put up a decent fight against the escort fighters and was used extensively in this role throughout the battle of Britain due to the larger number of hurricanes available compared to spifires. That said, I still believe that the primary reason for success was the guy sitting in the seat as opposed to which plane the seat was in, remembering of course the valuable contribution pilots from overseas played in the battle of Britain.

[Gary LaPook]

Maybe, but the Spitfire was prettier.

gl

Speaking of Spitfires, they just found a dozen of them in their original shipping containers buried at the end of the war!

gl

[Gary LaPook]

As long as we are talking aboout Lambrecht, here is a photo of him.

gl

[Gary LaPook]

...still believe that the primary reason for success was the guy sitting in the seat...

So very, very true - they are the ones we can never fully repay.

Gary,

That's a fascinating find of Spitfires - can't wait to see how that shakes out!

The latest version having the Griffon engine reminds me of the P-40N which came out at the end of the war - looked like a 'regular' P-40 but was anything but since it was highly refined and a very fine machine.  But, too late for the war effort.  There is a prime example near me in Warner Robbins GA at the AF museum there - in the 10th AF section.  My dad served in the 10th AF in Burma and loved the P-40N, so he thoroughly enjoyed that visit.

I enjoyed seeing the Spitfire at the 'Proud Bird' restaurant too - excellent memorial to what was just discussed.

Lambrecht photo is interesting and a 'better' one than his working photo in helmet, etc. (in formal sense).  He too did his best and I would never fault him or his fellow followers for not seeing AE, if it turns out she was there.  So many variables.  Those were gutsy guys flying old Corsairs off the cats of battleships.

LTM -

AND they had to find their way back to a moving base before they burned all of their fuel. They had to find the ship again and that ship ain't goin' to be in the same place as it was when they left it. Better be careful drawing those vector diagrams on your Mk 3 plotting board.

And then, IF they are able to find their ship, they have to land in the ocean, no matter how rough it is, not like landing in a smooth lagoon like the Pan Am Clippers did.

And then they had to maneuver next to that big hunk of iron, avoiding being smashed to bits against the side of the ship by those waves.

And then they had to be winched aboard.

Makes carrier ops look pretty tame.

gl

[richie conroy]

is it known if this search was carried out and if Gardner was searched ?

http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/epurdue&CISOPTR=625&REC=18

http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/epurdue&CISOPTR=608&REC=14