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[Jim Thwaites]

Hi all.
I just watched the video showing the wire and rope on the underwater cliff face. The rope doesn't look like rope should after 70 years underwater.
The helical coils are just too regular, no fraying/unraveling/loose fibers/rot. May i advance the idea that it is flexible metal electrical conduit, similar to the old
BX or armored cable?

[Ric Gillespie]

The rope doesn't look like rope should after 70 years underwater.
The helical coils are just too regular, no fraying/unraveling/loose fibers/rot.

Of course, it could be rope from some other source that has been underwater for much less time. Anybody have an example of what rope looks like after 70 years underwater? 

May i advance the idea that it is flexible metal electrical conduit, similar to the old
BX or armored cable?

Interesting thought.

[Don Dollinger]

Of course, it could be rope from some other source that has been underwater for much less time. Anybody have an example of what rope looks like after 70 years underwater?

I watched it in HD and thought the resolution on the ROV looked pretty good.  I am assuming that you seeing the pictures on the monitor would've led you lean one way or the other or was what we saw not quite as clear as I percieved it to be.  I never even thought rope, I thought somewhere in the area of 1/2" cable but of course I was not there too see what you saw on the monitor.  Also don't know much about the design of the Electra other then what I have seen on the website.  Are the exterior stabalizing/antenna wires that go from the fueslage of the Electra to the rear more like wires or cables?  I really trust your judgement so in your honest opinion, in your minds eye, which do you "believe" it to be rope or metal cable?

I know I am talking woulda, coulda, shoulda, but if in fact it's cable (without recovery couldn't be proven) it really adds credence to the Electra going over the reef edge in that particular area.   The reason I bring this up is I read somewhere the Electra would float for quite sometime due to buoyancy of the empty fuel tanks.  If the fuselage was basically intact after being ravaged by the surf I thought it would've had a real good chance of floating quite some distant before finally sinking.  That being said, there could be more of the electra off the reef shelf then just the engines.  If engines where found wouldn't it take another expo to raise them and positively ID them?

[Ric Gillespie]

I really trust your judgement so in your honest opinion, in your minds eye, which do you "believe" it to be rope or metal cable?

My judgement is no better than yours but our forensic imaging specialist, Jeff Glickman, is dead sure that it's rope and jeff is seldom dead sure about anything.

If the fuselage was basically intact after being ravaged by the surf I thought it would've had a real good chance of floating quite some distant before finally sinking.

I agree, and if that's what happened we really have our work cut out for us.

  That being said, there could be more of the electra off the reef shelf then just the engines.  If engines where found wouldn't it take another expo to raise them and positively ID them?

That's one of the many issues we'll need to address in planning the expedition.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

That's one of the many issues we'll need to address in planning the expedition.

TIGHAR has announced plans for Niku VII.

There is also a special Kickstart campaign for more archival work.

[Don Dollinger]

My judgement is no better than yours but our forensic imaging specialist, Jeff Glickman, is dead sure that it's rope and jeff is seldom dead sure about anything.

I concede to Jeff, he is far more qualified than I.  Rope it is.  Thanx...

LTM

Don

[Chris Johnson]

i'm no expert but on first viewing it looks like braided steel wire, but then i'm not watching the original on a fancy PC rig.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

i'm no expert but on first viewing it looks like braided steel wire, but then i'm not watching the original on a fancy PC rig.

Even if it was rope, that doesn't necessarily rule it out as debris from the aircraft.

I should think they would carry tie-downs with them, just in case.

Of course, it wouldn't be the smoking gun by any means, whether it's wire or rope.
Both of those would be found on lots of boats or ships nearby ...

[Bill Lloyd]

Of course we must defer to the expert, if he says it is rope then that's probably what it is, however, to my untrained eye it sure looks like this type of metal conduit.

[Chris Johnson]

The underwater object looks more braided than the conduit to my eye.  The conduit looks more like a series of circle rather then a 'rope' type braid.

[Michael HALL]

To my untrained eye it looks like "re-bar" reinforcement bars used in concrete strengthing.