Ballard object

[Don Yee]

Hi all,
I was rewatching the Ballard documentary 'Expedition Amelia' and on the very last day Ballard's crew recovers an object they they think might be aluminum but after close up examination determine it's not. It has a white-ish shiny side and a side that looks like it's got wood fragments attached (perhaps indicating that the object was once glued to a wooden structure). They don't discuss what it may be but I was wondering if it could be the covering over wooden furniture, like cabinets or a tables? Would the Electra have had any cabinets or similar wooden components on it covered by a finished surface? 
Don...

[Ric Gillespie]

Good question.
There was a platform over the fuselage tanks to permit transit between the cockpit and the navigator's station.  It had some kind of smooth surface, probably glued to plywood, but it was dark colored.
The navigator's table seems to have been bare plywood.
The floor in the cabin was plywood covered with linoleum. No color specified.  Could the stuff Ballard found be linoleum?

[Don Yee]

My first thought was linoleum although it seems very thin (I've pulled linoleum out of a house built in the early 1900s and it was quite thick and had a black backing. The other question would be if the Norwich City would have had any such material on board (it was built decades before the Electra). Seems like linoleum goes back to the mid-1800s.

Ric, this is a zoomed out version of the image that you posted above (it's from: https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/61_FuelSystem/61_FuelSystem.htm).

Is the floor in front of the tanks bare plywood? It seems rather shiny. Do you have a better resolution image?

Don...

[Ric Gillespie]

I think we have some linoleum-like material salvaged from the Electra wreck in Alaska.  I'll dig it out.

[Don White]

It looks like Formica. Older Formica often has a wood backing.

It was already in use for interior surfaces. It might have been used in an airplane cabin, boat cabin, or house.

Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formica_(plastic)

LTM,
Don W

[Ric Gillespie]

Lockheed specs say linoleum.

[Don White]

Linoleum makes more sense for that application. Also, linoleum was often made with asbestos fibers to make it fire resistant, which would have also made sense. The old 9-inch linoleum squares often seen on cellar floors of old houses reputedly always contain asbestos.

[Don Yee]

Linoleum makes more sense for that application. Also, linoleum was often made with asbestos fibers to make it fire resistant, which would have also made sense. The old 9-inch linoleum squares often seen on cellar floors of old houses reputedly always contain asbestos.

My only hesitation is that in the Ballard video the material seems very thin (perhaps 1/16"). So it looks more like veneer that was glued to wood (which was/is common in cabinets and furniture). Linoleum often has a backing that provides some cushioning when used in flooring applications. That's why I thought cabinets. Wasn't there some info about Noonan having a shelf for his navigation books? Besides that I don't see any other cabinets in any of the cockpit photos available on the internet.

Don...

[Ric Gillespie]

Wasn't there some info about Noonan having a shelf for his navigation books?

No.  You're thinking of the navigator's bookcase we found, that turned out to be from a B-24.

[Don White]

There are really two questions here -- what was it that Ballard found, and what was it that was in the Electra. I thought the Ballard find looked like Formica. There's nothing other than the area in which it was found to suggest it was part of the Electra. There are other possible sources for a piece of Formica in the island's history. And it might be something else.

LTM,
Don W

[Ric Gillespie]

Yep. There's no way it can be a diagnostic artifact.  At best, it could be one of the many "interesting possibilities" found over the years.

[Don Yee]

I grabbed the segment of the doc where they examine the object. Here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRGhtxThcmM

Don...

[Bill Mangus]

What were the floors of the buildings in the village made of?  This might be village debris.

[Ric Gillespie]

What were the floors of the buildings in the village made of?  This might be village debris.

Government building floors were concrete.  Village house floors were local material.  We saw no linoleum or other western flooring material in the village.

[Don Yee]

Yep. There's no way it can be a diagnostic artifact.  At best, it could be one of the many "interesting possibilities" found over the years.

Agree. However some questions to ponder.
1. Was there any linoleum or Formica on the Electra?
2. If yes, could it be determined the type/color used? Does any similar material still exist from the manufacturer?
3. If yes, could one do a chemical/materials analysis to determine similarity?

Even if you could and it was a match that does not mean it was definitive. Still, if Ballard was only focused on aluminum and the engines did he miss any other items?