Bob Ballard to search for Earhart plane

[Ric Gillespie]

Thanks Randy.  The clarity of the water in the lagoon seems to vary. Coast Guard veterans remember the water being clear.  We've always found it to be extremely cloudy with silt stirred up from the bottom.  Likewise with the water in the pond in Newfoundland, although there the consistency of the bottom silt is denser - more like oatmeal.

[Bruce Douglas Evans]

Can anyone tell me when and if the programme will be shown in the UK?

[Ric Gillespie]

Can anyone tell me when and if the programme will be shown in the UK?

I'm sure it will be shown in the UK and my best guess is that it will be with a day or two of the American premiere.

[Joy Diane Forster]

You can find the schedule online at the National Geographic UK site.  Looks like it will air October 26.  Here's the link I found:

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/video/tv/expedition-amelia

[Randy Conrad]

Saw the trailer for tonight's feature by Bob Ballard. Thank you Andrew McKenna for showing this on Facebook. After watching the trailer..Im truly convinced and hopeful that Bob will show alot of our work over the many years. I give him two thumbs up for making Kansas Proud. Very classy! I think whatever he has found and what we have....may finalize this story...or bring this closer to an end. He was right.. it wasn't pretty for Amelia and Fred. The temperature and conditions must have been horrid and most likely led to their death. I'll agree with many that Fred didn't live long with major injuries suffered and suffering from possible concussion from landing. Anyway, tonight show will give us all a pat on the back and say well done. Yeah I believe we still have much to learn and know and to find....but after all young boys and girls have been searching for her for 80 years until they themselves are swallowed by darkness of death. Why Amelia Earhart?? Many people question that? Anyway, I believe she possessed the true human spirit to try things once and take it to a new level. I hope many of you have gained a true sense of appreciation as I have with organization and RIC Gillepsie for many years...and the friendships developed along the way. Also...I have two questions for mbps any of you...In the trailer she tells Itasca she is flying at a 1000 feet and be clearly heard...Is this because of cloud cover. Does cloud cover have an influence on radio transmissions if there was not any cloud cover? Also, in the last minute of the trailer Amelia plane is taking off...is it me RIC or Andrew...but does the back door appear to have damage? Anyway...cant wait till this evening...It will be interesting!!!

[Randy Conrad]

Okay....now I know I'm not hallucinating on this...But why is it in Bob Ballards two videos that he has a window in the door, and the other there is not. Is there something else we don't know?

[Bruce Thomas]

The door had its window installed in January 1937. It seems that of the two clips shown, one was before then and the other was after January 1937.

[Randy Conrad]

RIC I'm sorry if I didn't word that email I sent you in regards to the Electra. I was trying to say that after Amelia landed per say....and the plane eventually slid off the reef....would the wasp motors break away themselves from all of the weight or would they stay attached to the wing and landing gear. I saw the 6300 pound weight of the electra empty and having a hard time adapting to the idea that it floated. Maybe without the wasp motors...but not the whole plane. Ya looked good in the documentary...and made us Tighars proud of You! Ballard was right...that plane has to be there...but where....so now what do we do?

[Christian Stock]

From what I remember of the program, Ballard discussed how the Electra might have "flown" under water for a distance. He then extended his search to about a mile from the island. I know gliding under water has been discussed here before, but has anyone come up with a good number for how far the Electra could have gone as it descended? Glide ratio in the air has mostly to do with drag, but I think buoyancy would have a lot to do with it in water. At some point. If the buoyancy of the Electra was only slightly negative, it might have "flown" under water for a much greater distance.

[Ric Gillespie]

Glide ratio in the air has mostly to do with drag, but I think buoyancy would have a lot to do with it in water. At some point. If the buoyancy of the Electra was only slightly negative, it might have "flown" under water for a much greater distance.

Flight is a delicate thing. For an airplane to glide - whether in air or water or whiskey - it must be intact and properly trimmed. Remove or bend the wings or control surfaces or do anything to disturb the aircraft's center of gravity versus center of lift, and the airplane flies like a dropped tool box.
See for yourself with any 69-cent balsa wood toy glider.
The chance the Electra went into the ocean capable of flight, after sustaining enough damage to remove a main landing gear assembly, is virtually nil.

[Don White]

Ballard used the term "kiting" to describe how the Titanic traveled horizontally as well as vertically on its way to the bottom, which in part could explain the difference between its last reported position on the surface and where it is now (the other part being the accuracy of the surface position). Kiting might be a better term for the Electra under water than gliding. It seems to me that an airplane -- in the air-- that was unable to maintain flight but retained enough of its flight surfaces might travel some way horizontally as well as vertically before hitting the ground. An airplane that suffered a sufficiently catastrophic in-flight breakup just falls straight down. This is Ric's area of expertise (aircraft accident investigation) and he may have some data on the trajectory of damaged aircraft on their way to the ground.

Another consideration, though, is that this airplane (the Electra after it washes off the reef) was not in air, which offers little resistance to falling solid objects that have little surface area (thus, for example, when Galileo dropped two different-sized cannon balls from the Campanile de Pisa, the difference in air resistance did not materially affect the observation  that they fell at the same speed), but in water. Displacement (what floats your boat) means even massive objects in water behave differently when submerged (their apparent weight is reduced by an amount equal to the weight of the water they displace), and water offers more resistance than does air to objects moving through it, such that they may not fall straight down. This of course is affected by the density of the object (two cannon balls dropped in water might not fall at different rates), and whether the water is still or in motion (how much force it can apply to the object). Moving water has enough force to push big pieces of iron from the Norwich City a considerable distance horizontally.

The Electra, in order to be able to fly, was a lot less dense than iron -- in total, of course -- certain parts by themselves were more dense -- so depending on how much was still in one piece, perhaps it could travel some way, even if it was no longer airworthy, and even if it was no longer what we would consider buoyant.

Just inviting some discussion.

LTM,
Don