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Author Topic: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198  (Read 87214 times)

Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2017, 11:54:13 PM »

Mention of HO 5050 series maps, plotting versions and such, ...these turned up at NARA..... 1932 version

All map image credit goes to NARA
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:11:40 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2017, 11:59:17 PM »

continued;
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:01:01 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2017, 12:15:26 AM »

Plotting Chart # 3  1933 version
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:28:57 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2017, 12:20:38 AM »

Plotting chart # 17 1933 Version
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 12:29:19 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2017, 09:48:12 AM »



The NLA does not have a copy of any edition of HO 1262, "Tracking Chart of the World."     However, I was able to find an image of a 1943 edition in an old Ebay auction.  This version shows the shipping routes as an overprint on a base map HO 1262a, "Outline Chart of the World," and it does not resemble the chart Earhart is holding in the photo. 

Here are some images of 1262b;

( All map images credit NARA)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 09:50:33 AM by Jerry Germann »
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2017, 10:19:51 AM »

Jerry-

Thanks for your efforts.  Did you recover those images on-line, or did you make a personal visit to the archives? 

So, your new information adds to our understanding of plotting charts.   My 1939 catalog does not offer HO5050 or any of its sheets:  therefore, I conclude that HO5050 was withdrawn from public sale at some point between 1933 and 1939.   As I have noted elsewhere, there is no special information on the plotting sheets, indeed, they contain less information than the nautical charts.   I believe they were intended as a convenience item.  Hence, there is no particular reason not to provide them to the public, and I doubt that Earhart or Noonan would have any particular difficulty in getting hold of copies if they wanted them.

HO5050 sheet #3, as you pictures show, cuts off at 2.5 degrees S, so it couldn't be used for the early part of the flight.  As Ric notes, Sheet #3 does not show the Phoenix Islands.
It doesn't include Lae, New Britain, or Bougainville.  So, IF Noonan used this chart, he would still need  another chart for the first part of the flight. 

Your index map shows that there are one or more HO 5050 sheets that cover New Guinea, but I can't quite parse it/them from the graphic.  I think #19?

HO 5050 sheet 17 covers both North and South of Howland from the Line Islands to the Phoenix Islands.  AE & FN would fly onto the map from the West near the Gilberts.  It looks like a better choice to me for the last part of the flight than Sheet #3, because it allows for plotting positions both North and South of Howland.  As in the case of #3, he would still need another chart for the first part of the flight.

Your images of a 1930s vintage HO 1262 identify the chart in the AE photo Ric posted pretty conclusively as HO 1262.

Lastly, I would note that Noonan's description of the charts he carried for the earlier Hawaii flight suggest that he was carrying a lot of charts that he was unlikely to actually need--particularly local nautical charts.    This proves nothing about the Howland leg, but does suggest to me that Noonan's inclination would be to carry more charts rather than less.

adr
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2017, 04:02:38 PM »


Jerry-

Thanks for your efforts.  Did you recover those images on-line, or did you make a personal visit to the archives? 


Your images of a 1930s vintage HO 1262 identify the chart in the AE photo Ric posted pretty conclusively as HO 1262.

Lastly, I would note that Noonan's description of the charts he carried for the earlier Hawaii flight suggest that he was carrying a lot of charts that he was unlikely to actually need--particularly local nautical charts.    This proves nothing about the Howland leg, but does suggest to me that Noonan's inclination would be to carry more charts rather than less.

adr

Thanks Arthur,

 From all the information gathered, it appears the map that Earhart and Noonan hold for the photo op, is indeed H.O. 1262a.... I had looked for information on line, but didn't find what I was looking for. A friend was planning a trip to the area, and he had time to stop into NARA with my wish list and found many of the items I was looking for. Map 825 also was available, and wish I would have found it before you had to make use of your credit card. I have some images of that map as well, but you posted some fine examples already.

Jerry
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Kurt Kummer

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #82 on: March 12, 2017, 07:31:27 PM »

Thanks Jerry.  I particularly like seeing the 1932 map showing how the HO 5050 sheets were laid out across the Pacific.  Great job!
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2017, 02:56:47 PM »

Thanks Jerry.  I particularly like seeing the 1932 map showing how the HO 5050 sheets were laid out across the Pacific.  Great job!

You're welcome,  but,I must give a whole ton of credit to the friend who went to NARA and took the photos and found the maps we were looking for, without his efforts, I would be forever searching the net.
I enjoyed that index map as well, an unexpected find, a big help to those who wanted to narrow down their plotting to a specific area, without going through all the sheets to find the one wanted.

Stay tuned, more maps on the way.
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2017, 03:23:01 PM »

Okay, after studying the HO 5050 index map a bit longer, it looks like the best choices for the Howland flight would have been a combination of HO 5050 sheet 16 and HO5050 sheet 17.  Both charts cover from about 18 degrees N latitude to 8 degrees south.  Sheet 16 runs from Lae to the Gilberts, and Sheet 17 runs from the Gilberts to the Line Islands, and includes Howland and the Phoenix Group.  A third chart would be needed for the Howland-Honolulu leg.  Most of what passed for alternates to Howland are on Sheet 17.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2017, 11:03:13 PM »

Art,
 
Looking back , I see your H.O. map 825 is a 1941 version, ....below are images of a 1923 version found at NARA, by again, my very capable and determined friend.

All map images credit NARA, a very wonderful place.
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2017, 11:09:50 PM »

images continued;

All map images credit NARA

Notation by Gardner Is.
( Kemins Is.)
 Trees (40)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 11:16:32 PM by Jerry Germann »
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Arthur Rypinski

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2017, 11:23:43 AM »

Thanks, Jerry.
One of the very minor Earhart mysteries we are now in a position to address is:  "Might errors on charts have contributed to AE & FN's navigation problems?"  Elgen Long writes, "Howland Island is actually about six statute miles East of the position shown on the chart."  He then goes on to argue, inter alia, that the chart error offset Noonan's "Zone of Uncertainty," reducing the probability that a local search would find Howland.   As we have seen, which chart is "the chart" isn't actually known, and there are several possible choices. 

This particular problem is exacerbated because Howland and the Phoenix Group were not particularly well mapped in the early 1930s.  The development of aviation suddenly made these islands much more important, and by 1939 various islands had been visited and resurveyed by Pan American, as well as the British and American Governments.  Several islands were occupied.  Thus, by 1940, the position of the islands was likely known as accurately as possible with the methods of the day.  However, Earhart's flight took place right in the middle of this process, and it has always been unclear (to me) exactly how quickly the additional geographic knowledge was incorporated in the charts of the day.   We can now overlay successive HO charts, and see if Howland and the Phoenix Group moved over time, and how their charted position compares with the current location.
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Friend Weller

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2017, 06:18:39 PM »

"Might errors on charts have contributed to AE & FN's navigation problems?"

Add to the positional inaccuracies the issue the Gardner/Kremins Island wasn't displayed in it's correct shape on many maps.  (IIRC, it wasn't until after the New Zealand party reported their findings and the shape/lagoon was corrected on maps in 1938).
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Jerry Germann

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Re: Research Needed - H.O Chart #1198
« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2017, 10:05:59 PM »

Here is map HO 1198 showing Howland and Baker; circa 1916-1925

Again , all map images credit due NARA
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 10:09:19 PM by Jerry Germann »
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