Print

[Diane James]

Please forgive if I missed it.  I've looked at what I can find and haven't been able to learn if TIGHAR suspects the Bevington object to be the left main or the right main gear assembly from the Electra.  Which do we suspect it may be?
Thanks,
Diane

[Ric Gillespie]

Please forgive if I missed it.  I've looked at what I can find and haven't been able to learn if TIGHAR suspects the Bevington object to be the left main or the right main gear assembly from the Electra.  Which do we suspect it may be.

I don't know of any way to even make an informed guess.

[Diane James]

Thanks Ric.  I had thought that Jeff's photo analysis had determined that; guess I was wrong.
Diane

[Ric Gillespie]

The right main gear assembly separated from the airplane during the Luke Field ground loop but all that tells us is that if you slide an Electra on its belly the gear can be torn free.  In the Luke Field wreck, the right side failed first and may have sustained more damage than the left side.  Exactly how things played out on the reef is unknown.

[Greg Daspit]

Please forgive if I missed it.  I've looked at what I can find and haven't been able to learn if TIGHAR suspects the Bevington object to be the left main or the right main gear assembly from the Electra.  Which do we suspect it may be?
Thanks,
Diane

I have been studying the Bevington Object by building a 3d model of the landing gear components using Autocad.  The specific intent is to study the shadows. Autocad can calculate the shadows of the sun for the time of day at any location. Ric provided the coordinates which were entered for the location. The triangulation Jeff Glickman did was used to determine the direction to view the object.
The brake is closer to the inboard tip of the axle and has a larger diameter than the outer hub. The fender is a 2 piece design with a smaller front piece and larger rear piece. I intend to study the object in 4 different configurations.
1. Starboard with the brake facing the camera and the smaller front fender on top of the fork
2. Port with the brake facing the camera and the larger rear fender on top of the fork
3. Port with the outboard hub facing the camera and the smaller front fender on top of the fork
4. Starboard with the outboard hub facing the camera and the larger rear fender on top of the fork.
Because it is possible the larger fender can be bent to look like the smaller one, that may not help determine which gear it is. However, I  think it may be possible to determine if the fender is too big to be the smaller one. Because the brake is probably not as likely to deform as much as the fender or tire, IMO, it may be possible to guess which landing gear it is more likely to be. Again this is just my opinion. So far I have only studied configuration #1.

[Diane James]

I'll be fascinated to see your results, Greg. 

It seems to be common in aircraft design of the period to have the landing gear attachment built as a deliberate "weak link" so it would be the first point of failure so as to prevent greater airframe damage. It's designed that way on my Luscombe. (PLEASE don't ask me how I know!).

I think I recall reading here that we have determined that if the Electra's left (port) gear assembly failed on landing but the right stayed intact, the right engine would still be operable to run the generator and thus the transmitter.  The gear assembly might not have broken loose from the airframe until later, but if it did happen on landing it would explain a lot of the "Noonan is hurt" scenario. From the right seat he would have jackknifed over the lap belt and his head would have been thrown forward and to his right into the cockpit window structure, while Amelia would have been thrown away from it. Also, she was shorter so had more head clearance. Pilot shoulder harness apparently was not part of Lockheed's design, although its value had been well understood since the first world war.

It probably does nothing to help us find that infamous any-idiot-artifact, but it is a curiosity of mine and I'm guessing of other members, to determine which gear assembly became the dot on Eric Bevington's picture.

Diane

[Ric Gillespie]

Assuming we were able to determine which gear assembly we're looking at in the Bevington Photo, what would that tell us (beyond which gear assembly we're looking at)?

[Greg Daspit]

Assuming we were able to determine which gear assembly we're looking at in the Bevington Photo, what would that tell us (beyond which gear assembly we're looking at)?

If it turns out to be possible, I don't think it tells us about events before it became separated from the plane. I think it might be useful information in investigating what happened after. If the subs find a landing gear partially buried at the base of the cliff at 200', and you can identify which one it is, it may be important in trying to figure out what happened to the rest of the plane. For example if the gear at the base of the cliff is the same gear as the Bevington object, it might be a clue that the rest of the plane is somewhere else and not buried further under talus in the area. The logic being that if the gear at the base of the cliff is the same as the Bevington object, then the rest of the plane might have floated farther away. If a gear is found at the base of the cliff that is not the same as the Bevington object, then some technique of searching under the talus may need to be considered more.

[Bill Mahoskey Jr]

In response to Diane's comment, during a controlled landing on the reef, would Fred be in the front seat? I only ask that because I don't know if he could move between his navigator station in the rear right and the right seat in the cockpit with the fuel tank in between.

[Ric Gillespie]

In response to Diane's comment, during a controlled landing on the reef, would Fred be in the front seat? I only ask that because I don't know if he could move between his navigator station in the rear right and the right seat in the cockpit with the fuel tank in between.

Movement between the rear of the cabin and the cockpit was not difficult.  Noonan was probably up front.

[Leslie G Kinney]

In response to Diane's comment, during a controlled landing on the reef, would Fred be in the front seat? I only ask that because I don't know if he could move between his navigator station in the rear right and the right seat in the cockpit with the fuel tank in between.

Movement between the rear of the cabin and the cockpit was not difficult.  Noonan was probably up front.

They had light weight scaffolding over the top of the tanks.
That is sourced but would have to look for it.