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Author Topic: The AE POW theory in the news today....  (Read 18933 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 03:23:25 PM »

Same old same old.
The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 10:32:48 AM »

I solved this mystery a longggggg time ago: http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1560.msg34060.html#msg34060 , but I didn't bother to blow my own horn by calling it an "exclusive."

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2015, 09:56:19 PM »

Ric says,
"The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true."

Do you have source material to back up this statement?"
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2015, 10:23:49 PM »

Ric says,
"The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true."

Do you have source material to back up this statement?"


Here is one piece of evidence.


The FBI files are available online.

LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 08:37:55 AM »

Ric says,
"The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true."

Do you have source material to back up this statement?"

Interesting question.  Think about it for a moment.  What source material could I possibly have that would back up the statement that no government documents about Earhart remain classified? I can list many government documents about Earhart that are not classified.  Marty has pointed out that the FBI files are public information and there are numerous government reports and correspondence published on the TIGHAR website. Beyond that, the exhaustive database of ship's logs, radio logs, radio messages, and weather reports compiled by TIGHAR researcher Dr. Randy Jacobson (see Jacobson Database) includes something over 2,000 government documents relative to the Earhart disappearance.  When Randy was doing his research in the early days of the Earhart Project he was working for the Office of Naval Research in Washington, DC and his security clearance went all the way to "Really Neat." Of course, Randy could not tell us the contents of any classified files but he did tell that he could find no classified files related to Earhart.  I've seen copies of replies to generalized Freedom of  Information Act (FOIA) requests asking for the release of any classified document related to Amelia Earhart.  The reply is always, "We don't have any classified files to release."

But absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.  What if the government is lying? What if those thousands of released files are all cover for Earhart's spy mission?  What if Randy was actually part of the conspiracy of silence? Author Mike Campbell (The Truth At Last) is quite sure that I too am in on the plot.

So where does that leave us? To make a credible claim that the government has files related to Earhart that remain classified you have to know that the file exists and is classified.  To my knowledge, nobody has been able to name any such document. And yet, the author of this new book claims there are something like 113 classified files (nice specific number).  Maybe when his book comes out on January 5 it will have a list of documents in the NARA Finding Aids that cannot be accessed because they are still classified.  If so we'll look into it, but I suspect that any still-classified files, if they exist at all, are naval intelligence files that some conspiracy buffs assume contain information about Earhart.

Looking at the author's page on Amazon it seems clear that this is not a serious book about the Earhart mystery.  The author cranks out books about treasure hunting.   This latest book is just a rehash of the bizarre, too-dumb-to-discuss Irene Bolam theory first offered by Joe Gervais and Joe Klass in Amelia Earhart Lives! forty-five years ago. He'll sell a few books. The media and the public have a short memory and an insatiable appetite for stories about Amelia Earhart.  I've even heard it claimed that she died as a castaway on desert island. 
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 10:53:38 AM »

Ric says,
"The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true."

Do you have source material to back up this statement?"


Here is one piece of evidence.


The FBI files are available online.

Are you being sarcastic?
FBI FOIA files ???
This tells me you know little of this specific topic.

Ric,
You're extended response tells me you don't have an answer.

By the way,It doesn't matter  whether Randy held A TS clearance.
I still hold two current TS clearances and it doesn't help me one bit in viewing classified files that I don't have a need to know.

I am in no way endorsing the whacko claims claims made by Jameson in his book.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 11:06:31 AM »

The FBI files are available online.

Are you being sarcastic?

No.  Are you?

Quote
FBI FOIA files ???

Yes.

Quote
This tells me you know little of this specific topic.

Ah.

Oddly enough, what little I know has not changed one whit through your posts.

[Any hint of sarcasm in the preceding sentence is intentional.]
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 11:08:32 AM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2015, 12:13:07 PM »

Ric,
You're extended response tells me you don't have an answer.

You are correct.  I do not have an answer. That was the point of my extended response.  I also asked you a question.

What source material could I possibly have that would back up the statement that no government documents about Earhart remain classified?

I asked the question because it seems to me that you asked a question that has no answer. 

Perhaps you could do me the courtesy of a reply.
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2015, 02:32:49 PM »

Ric says,
"You are correct.  I do not have an answer. That was the point of my extended response.  I also asked you a question.
What source material could I possibly have that would back up the statement that no government documents about Earhart remain classified?
I asked the question because it seems to me that you asked a question that has no answer. 
Perhaps you could do me the courtesy of a reply."

Ric, you made a definitive statement:  “The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true.”

I responded by asking for your source material for that statement.  In actuality, you don’t know whether there are classified documents about the Earhart mystery.

Still classified files, or documents, pertinent to the Amelia Earhart mystery can only be accessed through the FOIA process and you better be specific. The Government does not help you find classified files. I have filed well over a 100 FOIA’s concerning the Earhart mystery. It's complicated and time consuming. Many are still outstanding after several years. Many have been returned because my requests were “too broad.” Many assigned to the NSA have been circumvented with the “Glomar Response.” Some have been answered with the comment that files for that year have been destroyed. A few have been productive.

Anyone asking the Navy, Marines, or FBI, etc., for their classified files regarding Amelia Earhart will be disappointed.  In that respect you are correct. However, that does not mean there aren’t classified files or documents containing Earhart related material still scattered among various agencies. 

TIGHAR has done outstanding work attempting to solve the Earhart mystery - you're just looking in the wrong area.   
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Bob Smith

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2015, 02:59:10 PM »

A close relative also had a top secret clearance, and from what I was told, that doesn't mean you have access to top secret files anytime you desire. It means you are able to work in areas where top secret information exists and you're required to keep the information from anyone without a need to know. You are not always told what information is classified, or what that classification is, and you are therefore expected to keep all information in your possession as if it was the highest classification, until told otherwise.
Bob S.
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2015, 04:10:12 PM »

Ric says,
"You are correct.  I do not have an answer. That was the point of my extended response.  I also asked you a question.
What source material could I possibly have that would back up the statement that no government documents about Earhart remain classified?
I asked the question because it seems to me that you asked a question that has no answer. 
Perhaps you could do me the courtesy of a reply."

You still haven't answered my question. What source material could I possibly have that would back up the statement that no government documents about Earhart remain classified?
Apparently i was correct in my impression that you asked me a question that has no answer.

Ric, you made a definitive statement:  “The claim that government documents about Earhart remain classified is not true.”

I responded by asking for your source material for that statement.  In actuality, you don’t know whether there are classified documents about the Earhart mystery.

That is correct.  I also don't know whether the government has secret files on space aliens visiting Earth in Flying Saucers.  I only know that I'm aware of no evidence to support such a contention.

Still classified files, or documents, pertinent to the Amelia Earhart mystery can only be accessed through the FOIA process and you better be specific.

You are making the assumption that such files exist.  Do you have any evidence at all to support such an assumption?

The Government does not help you find classified files. I have filed well over a 100 FOIA’s concerning the Earhart mystery. It's complicated and time consuming. Many are still outstanding after several years. Many have been returned because my requests were “too broad.” Many assigned to the NSA have been circumvented with the “Glomar Response.” Some have been answered with the comment that files for that year have been destroyed. A few have been productive.

Now we're getting somewhere. Here's your opportunity to prove me wrong. What classified government files related to the Earhart disappearance have you been successful in getting declassified through a FOIA request?


Anyone asking the Navy, Marines, or FBI, etc., for their classified files regarding Amelia Earhart will be disappointed.

Agreed.

In that respect you are correct. However, that does not mean there aren’t classified files or documents containing Earhart related material still scattered among various agencies. 

True, but if there are still classified files out there somewhere they must be classified either because:
A. Nobody thought to declassify them, in which case they're not part of a cover-up.
or
B. The government is keeping them classified in order to hide something, but there is no evidence that the government is trying to hide anything. 

TIGHAR has done outstanding work attempting to solve the Earhart mystery

Thank you.  Again we're in agreement.

- you're just looking in the wrong area.

Please enlighten us.
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Leslie G Kinney

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 10:21:26 PM »

I had enough, your forum members and guests are smart enough to evaluate your comments.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2016, 07:17:20 AM »

I had enough, your forum members and guests are smart enough to evaluate your comments.

Once more we are in agreement.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: The AE POW theory in the news today....
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2016, 02:20:23 PM »

Can't we just all get along and, I don't know, work together to solve this mystery?

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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