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[Bob Smith]

Thanks Ross. You come up with some fun reading! Some of what you say is familiar to me and some is not.  A lot of us are paralyzed in the brain for one reason or another, and you are not. I also have some experience in living both in the snow and desert and are somewhat of an explorer. Hope I can find an island like yours someday but I probably would need more than coconuts to keep me there!!

[Ross Devitt]

Just been checking old notes.  It seems when I did the previous coconut experiment I was at that spot for 5 days and on three of them drank 'mostly' coco water.  The limit being how long it took to open the tough nuts I found lying around the two existing trees.  And I was not sick that time either.  So the only real difference with the update is going coco water only, and discovering that green or almost green nuts can be opened very, very easily.  And that there is a greater abundance of green or nearly green nuts if you have more trees.

Probably burned this topic out now.  But at least it gives our castaway something to carry around in the Benedictine bottle.  Which by the way, I have always thought was possibly given to Fred and Amelia as a gift at some function they attended on the flight. 

Can't even guess how many hours I spent scouring photos of them at various functions looking for the distinctive shape of a Benedictine bottle somewhere in the picture...

[pilotart]

Ross, Thank you 'so-much' for these posts, I have really learned a lot from them. I have just one Coconut Palm (Cuban Giant AFAIR) I live in SW Florida.

25 years ago (Shortly after building) a friend brought us a Nut like you see in first photo (except it had green fronds) and suggested we just set it (no digging or fertilizing) about ten feet up from the canal and ignore.

Wow, did it ever sprout! (30'+) There have been far more big Coconuts falling over past 20 years than I could ever consume and of course now stretching out over the water, some just float away.

30+ years ago I had an Air Charter Service and recall a LI Tourist (not one of my pax) severely cutting his hand/arm with machete (coconut opening) at Southern Cross Club and he had to be evacuated from Little Cayman Island to Grand Cayman for Medical. Makes me cringe just watching Richie, but of course he's no 'LI Tourist', I like your method much better

I would just take a small electric chain saw (they can be dangerous too) and slice the tops off. I never saved the liquid and loved the 'meat'. It's a real treat raw or toasted slightly (sliced thin and a few minutes under broiler). I shall save the Coconut Milk next time. Our local Rum Distillery ("Wicked Dolphin") brews a wicked Coconut Rum and that's all I've tasted and it's fabulous.

Most interesting for me was during Hurricane Charlie (surprise hit on Friday the 13th of August 2004),  was watching that Giant Coconut Palm 'weather' the 100 MPH+ winds which clocked from North through East and out of the South and SW over an hour's time. Home is about 100' North of Palm Tree and concern was that those coconuts would become missiles, but no, they drop faster than they can accelerate so they pretty much land under tree (as did the huge Mahogany limbs, etc.). It's when the winds pick up debris off the ground that it gets accelerated and can drive a cane through a telephone pole.

It was those (also 40+ feet tall) Bamboo Trees (you can see behind on photo from dock) that laid across our patio's flat-roofed screen structure which saved it from being ripped off and blown away, absolutely no structural damage to our home, but some of the Beautiful trees (not Palm, Bamboo or Live Oak) like Mahogany and Italian Cypress made a mess and then died from injuries. Norfolk Island Pines were a real surprise to me in how well they held up.

Just took these photos and almost Winter Sun was wrong angle except from dock and I didn't feel like launching a boat or kayak for better views.

The last photo shows one little green nut (it rattled) with larger ones that 'slosh' along with some 'nuts' from the two (also much taller than usual) Christmas Palms seen beneath the Coconut. They seem to shed red nut cover on their own.
_____________________________________________________
But thank you again for your research and sharing your knowledge with us.

Have Wonderful Holidays to all.

Art

P.S. Is your Facebook restricted to logged-on now?

(Also it's a pet peeve on this site how large images open on most posts and that's why I selected "Small" while emailing them from iPhone to PC.) Also saves some of TIGHAR's Server Space!

[Ross Devitt]

Thanks for the nice comments.  I state my opinions in posts, sometimes supported by known fact, but sometimes, simply an idea I had.  It is still not certain the castaway might have been Amelia or Noonan.  But we sort of hope, in which case there's probably the other skeleton somewhere in a shallow grave.

As for pilotart's wishing to find a similar Island to those I have here in Aus.  I found one in the Philippines, where my girlfriend and I have helped her sister build a very small resort on an island 7km by 4km.  Just 4 bamboo huts and 2 stone and cement units, a stone and cement cafe.  No aircon, and a small 20 foot boat (a banca - sort of like a motorised outrigger canoe).  I am now in my early 60's, which is scary considering how reasonably young I was when I first started reading the old TIGHAR forum.  As a casual pilot, a radio technician and with strange practical experience I had the opportunity to add a few things to the forum that made a small difference, and a lot of things to the forum that made people laugh, but were still mostly relevant.

Even the new Hoodless vs Burns et al discussions tiptoe over swampy ground, we still have a skeleton lying in those conditions under a tree, with a sextant box that had visible stencilled letters on it.  According to Hoodless, probably in excess of 20 years.

About 10 years ago I tried to encourage TIGHAR to leave a piece of wood about the size of a sextant box, with stencilled numbers, on Niku.  The obvious place would be under the 'ren tree' they were considering at the time, but a few of them at different places around the island makes more sense.  I had performed a small experiment on weathering in sun and coral rubble on one of our islands - which resulted in my being dubbed 'Th WOMBAT' by some TIGHARs.

TIGHAR has now been going to Niku for long enough for that little experiment to bear fruit, and seeing the actual results of that experiment is something I have waited for anxiously for many years.  The reasoning was that if the weathering on a similar type of timber to a sextant box is not to severe after 2 or 3 years and the numbers can be read, the skeleton might be Fred or Amelia.  If however after 5 or 10 years it is bad enough that the stencilled letters cannot be read, it is more likely to be Fred or Amelia.

Sadly this is as close to a scientific experiment involving the sextant box, that we could have performed.  I recall the pig carcass experiment, but I cannot see anywhere that suggests my Sextant Box experiment was ever carried out.

So, the ideas for simple affordable experiments are often provided, but sometimes they might not be not followed through.  Like spending the entire time on a Niku expedition drinking only coco water.  It could have been done so easily, and put so many doubts to rest.  With no risk to health other than the possibility of loose bowels, in which case a quick return to bottled water would have fixed that problem.

And for Art.  Don;t use a saw.  Lay the coco on its side somewhere it can;t slip and use a decent sharp 'cook's knife' to slice away a bit of a cone at the stem end of a green nut.  Once you have the pointy cone you can start slicing across the cone.  if it is not deep enough, whittle more cone.  You will very soon learn how far from the stem you will find the 3 eyes.  But on a green nut you don;t even have to poke the eyes.  Just keep slicing and you will cut into the chamber where the water lives.

A saw will fill the water chamber with bits of fibre and stuff.  Slicing is simpler.  Just brace the green nut on something that cannot slip.  Folded towel comes to mind.  And cut away from your hand.  If the nut is too immature to make water, you might want to open the kernel.  Then look up  'Buko Pie'  on the GoOgLe   :-)

And a last not on the sextant box.  It appears Gallagher would have known exactly what a Benedictine bottle looked like compared to similar plonk.  From the inventory of his effects:

1 bottle medicine, 1 bottle whiskey, 1/2 bottle Cointreau, 1 bottle Cherry brandy, 2 1/2 bottles Bourgoyne, 2 1/2 bottles bitters, 1 bottle Dramblin, 1/2 bottle Creme de Menthe, 2 1/2 bottles gin.

[pilotart]

Thanks for the nice comments.  I state my opinions in posts, sometimes supported by known fact, but sometimes, simply an idea I had.  It is still not certain the castaway might have been Amelia or Noonan.  But we sort of hope, in which case there's probably the other skeleton somewhere in a shallow grave.

You are most welcome and thank you for your further insight into entering Coconuts.

As for pilotart's wishing to find a similar Island to those I have here in Aus.  I found one in the Philippines, where my girlfriend and I have helped her sister build a very small resort on an island 7km by 4km.  Just 4 bamboo huts and 2 stone and cement units, a stone and cement cafe.  No aircon, and a small 20 foot boat (a banca - sort of like a motorized outrigger canoe).  I am now in my early 60's, which is scary considering how reasonably young I was when I first started reading the old TIGHAR forum.  As a casual pilot, a radio technician and with strange practical experience I had the opportunity to add a few things to the forum that made a small difference, and a lot of things to the forum that made people laugh, but were still mostly relevant.

Looks like an interesting Resort you have helped create. Hope their future will be Typhoon Free for many years. We've been Hurricane Free for fourteen years now and prior to Charlie, it was thirty-four years back to Donna on September 21, 1960.

I went out exploring during Donna's Eye, in my Model-A Ford Rumble-Seat Roadster until I came upon a City Pickup buried to its windshield in a flooded ditch cut across a highway by the storm. Lucky Kid, but I didn't take dumb chances like that after passing eighteen in '61.

I wasn't "Wishing for a similar Island" as I live along the "Lee Island Coast", just above "The 10,000 Islands" and I do love islands. Briefly considered buying a lot on the Gulf, along the north edge of an airstrip on North Captiva Island and it's still accessed only by boat or plane (had a Luscombe at that time). Glad I didn't buy as normal erosion has long ago eaten that lot completely away.

Even the new Hoodless vs Burns et al discussions tiptoe over swampy ground, we still have a skeleton lying in those conditions under a tree, with a sextant box that had visible stencilled letters on it.  According to Hoodless, probably in excess of 20 years.

About 10 years ago I tried to encourage TIGHAR to leave a piece of wood about the size of a sextant box, with stencilled numbers, on Niku.  The obvious place would be under the 'ren tree' they were considering at the time, but a few of them at different places around the island makes more sense.  I had performed a small experiment on weathering in sun and coral rubble on one of our islands - which resulted in my being dubbed 'Th WOMBAT' by some TIGHARs.

TIGHAR has now been going to Niku for long enough for that little experiment to bear fruit, and seeing the actual results of that experiment is something I have waited for anxiously for many years.  The reasoning was that if the weathering on a similar type of timber to a sextant box is not to severe after 2 or 3 years and the numbers can be read, the skeleton might be Fred or Amelia.  If however after 5 or 10 years it is bad enough that the stencilled letters cannot be read, it is more likely to be Fred or Amelia.

Sadly this is as close to a scientific experiment involving the sextant box, that we could have performed.  I recall the pig carcass experiment, but I cannot see anywhere that suggests my Sextant Box experiment was ever carried out.

So, the ideas for simple affordable experiments are often provided, but sometimes they might not be not followed through.  Like spending the entire time on a Niku expedition drinking only coco water.  It could have been done so easily, and put so many doubts to rest.  With no risk to health other than the possibility of loose bowels, in which case a quick return to bottled water would have fixed that problem.

And for Art.  Don't use a saw.  Lay the coco on its side somewhere it can't slip and use a decent sharp 'cook's knife' to slice away a bit of a cone at the stem end of a green nut.  Once you have the pointy cone you can start slicing across the cone.  if it is not deep enough, whittle more cone.  You will very soon learn how far from the stem you will find the 3 eyes.  But on a green nut you don;t even have to poke the eyes.  Just keep slicing and you will cut into the chamber where the water lives.

A saw will fill the water chamber with bits of fibre and stuff.  Slicing is simpler.  Just brace the green nut on something that cannot slip.  Folded towel comes to mind.  And cut away from your hand.  If the nut is too immature to make water, you might want to open the kernel.  Then look up  'Buko Pie'  on the GoOgLe   :-)

I shall give that a try next time, I aimed the saw to slice just above the top of the Hard Internal Nut, just above the three 'eyes', but if I mis-judged, meat I was after rinsed clean. (Will save the milk next time).

As a kid, I never cared much for coconut candy, much too sweet and I didn't like the stringy texture either, still feel the same way at 71. Freshly opened Coconut 'meat' is completely different and I love it, freezes well too.

And a last not on the sextant box.  It appears Gallagher would have known exactly what a Benedictine bottle looked like compared to similar plonk.  From the inventory of his effects:

1 bottle medicine, 1 bottle whiskey, 1/2 bottle Cointreau, 1 bottle Cherry brandy, 2 1/2 bottles Bourgoyne, 2 1/2 bottles bitters, 1 bottle Dramblin, 1/2 bottle Creme de Menthe, 2 1/2 bottles gin.

Gallagher would also have known it had no association with his stash. Especially telling, is that he thought it was a water storage container, partially filled, so it seems apparent that the poor castaway didn't die from thirst. Of course there are so many other ways to suffer a quick death on Niku, especially if you're stressed.

TIGHAR still has an interesting quest looking for that Electra, White Bird is too. The Maid of Harlich and the many other unfortunate aircraft they have reported on were interesting to see what happened and how TIGHAR Researched them, but then those quests pretty much end. If they find Amelia's 'Smoking Gun', the greater quest will have just begun....

[Dan Swift]

Ross

Very interesting stuff, thanks.

if you know what you are doing, and have the right tool, it is easier than you might think.

See Richie open and drink two mature cocos in 30 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8fMqSiLqw

Best

Andrew

I just lost three fingers just watching that video! 

[Andrew M McKenna]

Dan says
"I just lost three fingers just watching that video!"

Amazing huh?  Those guys from Fiji are masters with a machete.

Andrew

[Ross Devitt]

Now THAT sounds like mastery - or maybe mystery...

[Krystal McGinty-Carter]

If I did everything the "proper way." Id be dead by now. Far too accident prone to be trusted with large, sharp objects to open coconuts. Ill stick to clobbering them with blunt objects. (Hey, it works!)  Interesting fact about coconut palms: Their roots, when sliced off and boiled, can treat dysentery among other ailments.