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[Bob Smith]

"Could be, but somehow I don't see Fred using one of those. (Its a funny mental image though!)"

I'm not saying the cig. holder belongs to Fred, Krystal. It could be anybody's, if it is a cig. holder. (Anybody who happened to be boating in the vicinity may have dropped it; maybe somebody in a fishing boat, maybe somebody from the Fiji Princess, maybe FDR, who knows??)

[George Lam]

Last round of photos that I gave a second look.  I've circulated through all the hail mary images, and then repeated with most images rotated 180 degrees to get a fresh perspective.  This is the rest of anything and everything that caught my untrained eye.

First three image attachments:
Image 394/394 cropped/395.  Object or growth that stands out.  Has a small weird groove at the center... or the groove could be reversed and just be a small bump in the center, giving the illusion of the shape around it.  I have noticed in many other images that coral likes to take on semi-circle shapes and sometimes acts fractal-like.  I've notice other donut like objects as well, similar to one of my previous posts.  In 395, the same "object" has a slightly difference shape to it due to the camera angle.  Sometimes I notice an object appears exciting in one image, and completely changes in the next image when the perspective shift shows it's just coral growth.

Last image attachment:
Image 384.  Noticed possible shiny edge and another edge turning 90 deg. off of that, located on a boulder of coral growth.

On a last note, a large percentage of the hail mary images were taken relatively close to the reef floor, making it more likely that a massively large object like an intact Electra (relative to the scale of these images) to be out of frame. 

[Krystal McGinty-Carter]

Greg, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your photo. Im at work and limited to what I can do.  What is that silver "peg" looking thing I have circled in yellow? Is it a bubble or something else?


*edited because I must be going blind.

[Craig Romig]

In the photo last posted by Greg dsc00384. What position on the hail Mary map was that taken at.

What marine growth is that red stuff? Is that a growth that likes to grow on certain materials. Such as aluminum.
I do see the shiny long object. The edge looks like a shadow of a green viney growth. On

[Craig Romig]

http://eatlas.org.au/content/crustose-coralline-algae-and-sedimentation
Could this be the red growth?

[George Lam]

Greg, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your photo. Im at work and limited to what I can do.  What is that silver "peg" looking thing I have circled in yellow? Is it a bubble or something else?


*edited because I must be going blind.

Out of focus dust, there's a whole bunch.  The white line is probably some kind of sea life growing on the coral.  I see that randomly in other photos.

In the photo last posted by Greg dsc00384. What position on the hail Mary map was that taken at.

What marine growth is that red stuff? Is that a growth that likes to grow on certain materials. Such as aluminum.
I do see the shiny long object. The edge looks like a shadow of a green viney growth. On

I don't believe the photos have yet been matched to the Skiff's GPS points on the map.  The GPS points on the surface of the water don't necessarily correspond to the exact position the photos were taken.  I don't believe there will be any way to know for sure if the line lowered with the camera was perfectly straight and not skewed slightly in one direction or another based on horizontal movement/drag and/or currents.  Does anyone know a way to determine this?  The dive weight is resting on the reef floor in many of the photos so wondering if that decreases the camera's resistance to offset from the drop point above.

EDIT:
Found this post on Ric's comment about the skiff in relation to the camera position on this thread https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1714.15.html:

Good news that the skiff was on target. The direction the line bends between the camera and weight might be a clue of the current direction, or any excess line attached to the weight. If that is evident.

There is obvious displacement of the line in many of the photos, as in Frame 401 below, but in others the line is slack as in Frame 435.

Ron Bernier, who was handling the line, says, "The camera did not remain perpendicular and at times the angle may have been 20˚ as the boat was positioning.  At one point I pulled it up tens of meters before lowering it back to bottom in an effort to get it closer to being under the skiff.  I was so focused on ‘feeling’ the bottom that I am not clear on how the skiff position matched up."

It's not clear whether the displacement of the line was due to current or the movement of the skiff. I wouldn't expect the current to change dramatically minute to minute so I suspect that the strain we see on the line was caused by the fact that the skiff was moving.

[Ric Gillespie]

In this plot of the skiff track, each position where a GPS reading was recorded is numbered in sequence.  The attached spreadsheet gives the recorded lat/long each point and the time each reading was taken.
The time each photo was taken can be found in the metadata for that image. Most photo management software will let you access the metadata.

In the attached plot I've put a yellow dot at the approximate position where photos were taken that show "Can 2."  The number of the photo and the time are noted.  The orange dot is the approximate position of the camera for the one photo (557) that shows "Can 1."

[Ric Gillespie]

This is a mosaic of photos overlaid on the skiff track.  The scale and rotation of the mosaic is guesswork based on the field of view in each of the images used in the mosaic.

[Skip Daly]

Would it be accurate to say at this point, given the GPS/photo data, that the camera sled missed the sonar anomaly, and no photo coverage exists of the actual sonar target?
i.e. the main anomaly that casts the distinct sonar shadow still needs to be investigated.

I mean, the "cans" in the collage (which are "down-slope" from the anomaly, yes?) appear to be man-made objects and might or might represent debris associated with the main target...but no one will really know until/unless it's determined what the sonar target actually is...

[Ric Gillespie]

Would it be accurate to say at this point, given the GPS/photo data, that the camera sled missed the sonar anomaly, and no photo coverage exists of the actual sonar target?

There was no "sled."  At this point it is accurate to say that nothing has yet been seen in the photos that explains the anomaly seen in the 2012 sonar data. That could be because:
•  The camera missed the anomaly.
•  The camera photographed the anomaly but we don't recognize it.
•  The camera passed over or through the anomaly location but whatever caused the anomaly is moved in the three years since the sonar survey.
•  The camera passed over or through the anomaly location calculated by OIC but the anomaly position was wrong. 
 

i.e. the main anomaly that casts the distinct sonar shadow still needs to be investigated.

We did investigate it.  The investigation has not turned up anything that explains the anomaly.  We don't know why.  Further investigation is clearly needed.

I mean, the "cans" in the collage (which are "down-slope" from the anomaly, yes?) appear to be man-made objects and might or might represent debris associated with the main target...but no one will really know until/unless it's determined what the sonar target actually is...

The "cans" are the only objects which appear to be undoubtedly man-made.  They appear to have a shiny metallic end. What material could possibly still be shiny after 78 years in salt water?  The "cans" - whatever they are - seem to be fairly recent arrivals. 

[Jim M Sivright]

 The "cans" - whatever they are - seem to be fairly recent arrivals.
[/quote]

Is there anyway of knowing if someone else, possibly a recreational sailor, has visited the island? If I were a sailor sailing in those waters, it would be tempting to stop by and visit for a day or two. The location is certainly well known by now.
The longish item in one of the pics sure seem "clean" possibly being recent.

Is/was there any metal detecting device on the rov? Is that even possible?

Jim

[Ric Gillespie]

Is there anyway of knowing if someone else, possibly a recreational sailor, has visited the island?

Not if they didn't sign the Guestbook. :-)

Is/was there any metal detecting device on the rov? Is that even possible?

Yes, the technology exists. We actually wanted to have one on the ROV but the company that developed it couldn't move quickly enough.  Another frustration.

[Jerry Germann]

I appreciate the difficulty in working with the mosaic , and the problems associated with determining the size of the objects in the photos, .....a real challange. I appreciate the effort.
Some observations, ...I note that the tubular object in the attachment below , seems to have a pyramid shape on the tip, much like a common nail , or spike. The cylindrical object, that has been described as being flattened on one end, (and if the circular objects I outlined in the attached image are attached ), it reminds me of one of those keys, used to open a spam /sardine can,... red outlining the curved portion , yellow outlining possible parts of the lid removed in the process.

[Jerry Germann]

attachment;

Has the size of this object been determined/ undetermined?

[jack dunn]

In image 394, go to the very right handside, then move 3/4 down, there's an object that looks similar to a stirrup shape with a central piece that is sticking out. I'm not great at the highlighting stuff on pictures.

Last round of photos that I gave a second look.  I've circulated through all the hail mary images, and then repeated with most images rotated 180 degrees to get a fresh perspective.  This is the rest of anything and everything that caught my untrained eye.

First three image attachments:
Image 394/394 cropped/395.  Object or growth that stands out.  Has a small weird groove at the center... or the groove could be reversed and just be a small bump in the center, giving the illusion of the shape around it.  I have noticed in many other images that coral likes to take on semi-circle shapes and sometimes acts fractal-like.  I've notice other donut like objects as well, similar to one of my previous posts.  In 395, the same "object" has a slightly difference shape to it due to the camera angle.  Sometimes I notice an object appears exciting in one image, and completely changes in the next image when the perspective shift shows it's just coral growth.

Last image attachment:
Image 384.  Noticed possible shiny edge and another edge turning 90 deg. off of that, located on a boulder of coral growth.

On a last note, a large percentage of the hail mary images were taken relatively close to the reef floor, making it more likely that a massively large object like an intact Electra (relative to the scale of these images) to be out of frame.