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Author Topic: Can you explain what these little clips might be?  (Read 105050 times)

John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 09:53:47 AM »

Various artifacts, including the little clips,  have plenty of details to be found at http://tighar.org/smf/index.php?board=11.0
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Tim Collins

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 11:34:08 AM »

Is there any idea as to the size of the items being identified in the stills?   

Sorry - I posted this in the wrong forum.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 11:56:48 AM »

have u seen items similar to these that were found

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Help/Artifact5.html

have asked me dad about them, he reckons they could ov been used for secureing a metal roof to wood to stop it flappin at the edges

 :)

Here's a modern equivelent, check out the shape of the washer element?
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Matt Acuff

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #48 on: February 29, 2012, 04:40:33 PM »

Hey Guys, this is a 1st post but thanks for having me on the forum.

My father told me about something he had seen on discovery about your research and after a little investigation I for the TIGHAR project. So for the past month or so I've been studying up on all the research you guys have done and sifting through your documents and the like trying to get a handle on everything that has been done up to date. I'm also an ex-air force pilot and grew up around aviation so the project itself has great interest to me.

So I as on the board for the 1st time a few days ago and ran across this thread and at 1st glance I came to the same conclusion that most others have reached. These appear to be some sort of furniture hardware or carpet grips etc. I've taken apart enough cigar boxes to know that they are held together with all manner of thin metal clips, tabs and what have you. All in various metals etc. So the box hardware theory seems to fit.

However, thinking about these things for a few days and (at the time i had only read the 1st few posts) something came t mind last night that may fit. My thought was that perhaps these are a "hand tooled writing implement"?   

My premise follows this line of thought.
1. A potential castaway likely wouldn't have anything to write on/with paper pen etc.
2. They likely would have various scrap bits and scrapes around from any salvage they could get their industrious hands on.
3. After a short time as a castaway it is presumable to think they would have wanted to record there being there. Perhaps out of fear of imminent death or utility. Something such as "AE was hear" or perhaps to record days by notching a tree branch, writhing a short note or something.
4. The serrations on these clips remind anyone of a saw or cutting instrument, however the appear to be far to small to have been used as a saw.
5. So perhaps they were used for cutting carving something else?
6. The serrations could be notched into the metal by use of a stone or corral or some other hard large piece of metal.
7. The screw would serve to attach the clip to a piece of wood or handle
8. The secondary hole as another pointed out could be fashioned to keep the carving tip from spinning. And if this holds and spinning was a problem this could be consistent with back and forth carving / digging motion.

I know it may seem far out, but it was something I arrived at by asking myself what would a castaway need a small serrated edge for?

Oh and sorry for the long post!

BTW Does TIGHAR posses and high resolution satellite imagery of the islands. If not i might be able to obtain low cost imagry at a resolution of about .5m from the GEOEYE 1 satellite.

Lemmie know and thanks for having me on the board.


Matt Acuff
 
MBA Candidate 2012
M.J. Neeley School of Business
Texas Christian University
C: (817) 798-2004
matt.acuff@tcu.edu
http://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewacuff
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2012, 12:00:09 PM »

Quote
Don, your observations about carpet retainers nudged me closer to some vague recollection of the past.

I associated these 'gidgies' with wooden flooring used in some vintage airplanes but could not make a direct identification.  The 'carpet' angle adds something that deserves scrutiny - if autos were using something like this for carpet retention then it is likely aircraft manufacturers would have done the same in outfitting their cabins and cockpits.  Lockheed very well could have used standard parts for the same purpose.  That these are aluminum and 'hand made' could well be from an effort to save weight, however slight, or perhaps just an outfitter's use of available materials to complete a job in the absence of standard parts on the shelf.  That sort of thing still happens in the outfitting industry.
Just thinking out loud about the 5 W's...
Who - Lockheed repairman
What - Interior trim holddown clip
When - During repairs after the groundloop in HI
Where -  Lockheed Plant
Why - Ran out of the clips during final reassembly.  If not locally supplied would take a week or more to get more (no FedEx back then) so fashion a couple out of scrap aluminum to complete repairs  (not a part that will affect safety of the airframe) and get her "out the door" as they say.

LTM,

Don
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 12:03:20 PM by Don Dollinger »
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Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2012, 12:58:03 PM »

Don,
Sounds interesting. Just shooting off my mouth - I've wondered if they came from the aircraft bathroom door which IIRC was made of wood. My guess is that it could have been used as a sled to move items to the Seven Site and later used for firewood.
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Matt Acuff

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2012, 09:33:40 PM »

These item especially the second one remind me of the teeth on a clipboard. I havenet seen one like this in awhile and I couldnt find a picture on the internet but I have seen clipboards or just metal clips in general, spring loaded and meant to hold paper together that are highly representative of the dull serrations on the second item.

I would imaging that the flight had various clipboards with maps, charts, flight plan and calculations prob made out of aluminium with steel fittings.

Sorry I could't find a better image but this will give you the idea. Are there any other corroborating photos of FN or AE carrying a clip board or lying around the cockpit Perhaps?
 






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Matt Acuff

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2012, 10:06:25 PM »

These item especially the second one remind me of the teeth on a clipboard. I havenet seen one like this in awhile and I couldnt find a picture on the internet but I have seen clipboards or just metal clips in general, spring loaded and meant to hold paper together that are highly representative of the dull serrations on the second item.

I would imaging that the flight had various clipboards with maps, charts, flight plan and calculations prob made out of aluminium with steel fittings.

Sorry I could't find a better image but this will give you the idea. Are there any other corroborating photos of FN or AE carrying a clip board or lying around the cockpit Perhaps?
 








Ok i did some more digging and they are called bulldog clips or Boston Clips. A google search of either will bring up several variations. Just so you can see the serrations.

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John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2012, 10:44:57 AM »

J.C. - good thought-provoking ideas.  The weakness I see of the "aircraft shop" hypothesis is the absense of any comparable clips used in other aircraft examined so far.  I like the idea of a craftsman fabricating a couple clips to finish a job after running out of the production clips, but as I understand it no "production" clips have been found in other Lockheeds, so far.  To me that argues for these clips to have been fabricated for a very specific job, rather than to make up a shortfall of stock on-hand.
To me, the bent piece looks like it was bent during forced disassembly, rather than during fabrication.  It makes me think it was holding "something" in place that got pried apart.  In turn, that implies destructive disassembly, rather than disassembly for repair.  It also implies there was no use of proper tools (screw driver, claw hammer) for disassembly.   It makes me think of someone breaking up some wooden object to feed a fire, rather than salvaging wood for some other project.  If the clips had been IN a fire, I would not expect them to be so intact - sharp edges would easily melt in even a modest fire.
Each clip is unique - what does that imply, beyond hand-fabrication?  Each clip would take a significant amount of labor to fabricate - who would take so much time for a couple little clips? 
The odd shapes may indicate the original shape of small scrap pieces, or may indicate the specific functions of each clip.
'Good call about the 3-lobe hole shape.  I understand exactly how a 2-flute drill bit makes a 3-lobe hole.  That also indicates the holes were most likely drilled, not punched nor filed nor reamed.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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John M Kirk

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2012, 06:44:28 AM »

With a little imagination and a hammer.... just a thought.

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John M Kirk

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2012, 06:49:56 AM »

Granted, the clips in my above post were used on auto's back in 1938.  Not saying it came from an automobile, just something that used a "Weatherstrip", and required a clip to secure.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2012, 09:59:36 AM »

Whats a weather strip and whats it used for, attached too and otherwise made of?
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2012, 10:25:42 AM »

I was thinking the sextant box would be hard to lug around. Not just around an island but even to load it on and off the plane.
Maybe Fred had a shoulder strap attached at some time.
At some point at the seven site the strap was pulled off and it bent the clip.
The teeth were meant to bite into the strap so the screw alone would not tear the strap. The screws to go into the sextant box.
2 clips,  one for each end.
See attachment
3971R
 
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 03:07:26 PM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2012, 01:14:05 PM »

I developed the idea. One screw means the strap was meant to swivel. The other empty hole was just for the strap and not meant to be screwed into the box.
See attached pdf
3971R
 
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Chris Austin

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Re: Can you explain what these little clips might be?
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2012, 09:55:47 AM »

Whats a weather strip and whats it used for, attached too and otherwise made of?

Weatherstrip is usually a flxible part that prevents "weather" - water, wind etc. from getting into areas you want to keep it out of, especially if one of the adjoining parts is moveable. The most obvious weatherstrips on a car are the rubber at the bottom of door windows and the seal in the door surround that the door abuts when you close it. 
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