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Author Topic: Protection for the Electra  (Read 14567 times)

Robertansley

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Protection for the Electra
« on: November 09, 2014, 10:20:08 AM »

Dr. Ballard had some time by himself (with crew) to explore the Titanic before everyone caught on.  However when you find the Electra its location will be known worldwide.  Will you be able to recover what remains straight away?  It will generate a feeding frenzy I'll bet.  (I am studying the art of recovering old wrecks but I'm pretty ignorant about it right now. My apologies if this has been discussed.  I tried looking for it first)
Robert
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 10:54:17 AM »

If we find the Electra, or whatever remains of it, we will not try to recover anything except possibly some small diagnostic artifact.  Recovery will require careful planning and preparation to lift without damaging and apply appropriate conservation measures once recovered. In the meantime, security would, of course, be an issue but we expect to be able to have daily satellite surveillance.
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Robertansley

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 10:09:26 PM »

Thanks Ric.  I truly believe you will eventually find it as long as the donations keep coming in.  I'm sure after finding it and being able to prove it that funding will no longer be a problem. 
Robert Ansley
 
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Dave Lima

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 07:32:00 AM »

So is that then Tighar's official plan in the momentous event the plane is found: to recover a small sample of the plane, then recover the balance in a very careful and controlled manner?

I understand that with so much to do, so much to fund, and so many clues to untangle over the years, that planning the aftermath of finding the Electra might not have been deeply considered, lest "we get ahead of ourselves." But I also assume that with so many years of effort, research, and discussion, someone has seen the need at one point to have at least some conversation about this; about what actually happens if the plane is found. Sorry if it's here and I missed it.

It seems that in the event the Electra is found, sea-change will happen: world wide news coverage, sleepless Ric on endless interviews and appearances, all conversations on this forum instantly change direction, and I assume, funding might come easier (?), and suddenly Nikumaroro will make perfect hindsight sense to all the "other theory" people.

Has consideration gone beyond even that? ... ie. where the Electra would ultimately rest?

I'm fascinated by Ric's satellite security comment. Satellite coverage seems to infer government involvement or perhaps involvement of some very large corporation involved in earth mapping. An "expectation" seems to infer that a discussion has been had. Has it? With who?
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Ingo Prangenberg

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 08:07:20 AM »

Sorry, but I had to. Although its not salt-water (its a lake in Norway), the water is much colder, its not aluminum and its only been underwater for 50 years or so, the level of preservation is astounding. This vehicle is actually up and running now. It has been noted that the few aluminum components on the early Barndoor Bus are perfectly preserved (side trim, coat hooks).

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 08:10:37 AM »

But I also assume that with so many years of effort, research, and discussion, someone has seen the need at one point to have at least some conversation about this; about what actually happens if the plane is found. Sorry if it's here and I missed it.

Your assumption is correct.  We're not as dumb as we look but it's not here and you didn't miss it.
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Ingo Prangenberg

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 08:13:39 AM »

Well, the good thing is, thank God it isn't a wooden structure (such as a old wooden ship). This will avoid having to soak it for years in water to slowly leach out the salt in order to stabilize the material. Or am I wrong? Does aluminum also need a "long bath"?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 08:15:23 AM by Ingo Prangenberg »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2014, 08:21:21 AM »

Does aluminum also need a "long bath"?

I'm afraid so.  Even more so than wood, and not just in water.  It needs immersion in a special citric sulfate solution with an electrolytic current to extract the chlorides.  See http://tighar.org/Projects/Histpres/Corrosion_Report/corrosion.html
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John Klier

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 09:33:42 AM »

I'm fascinated by Ric's satellite security comment. Satellite coverage seems to infer government involvement or perhaps involvement of some very large corporation involved in earth mapping. An "expectation" seems to infer that a discussion has been had. Has it? With who?

I would assume that Tighar would contract with one or more of the commercial satellite imagery companies to provide imagery every time the satellites photo footprint passes over the target location.  How often a satellite passes over a given location is known as the temporal resolution and varies not only from satellite to satellite but can also vary depending on the latitude of the target.

Here's a website that shows the temporal resolution of various earth imaging satellites.

http://quizlet.com/7548715/satellites-flash-cards/

Note that some of those listed don't have the spatial resolution for the job or are geostationary and only sensing a very specific area.
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 02:59:01 PM »

If we find the Electra, or whatever remains of it, we will not try to recover anything except possibly some small diagnostic artifact.  Recovery will require careful planning and preparation to lift without damaging and apply appropriate conservation measures once recovered. In the meantime, security would, of course, be an issue but we expect to be able to have daily satellite surveillance.

For the sake of argument lets say that the sonar anomoly is the Electra.

Here is something to think about.  The painted Aircraft ID is on the Wings and the Tail section which may not be there any longer with the fuselage being beat against and sliding down the reef face all of these years.   Thus no outward identification to photograph to show to the naysayers.  Also may be unrecognizable smashed up piece of aluminum.  What small diagnostic artifact (in your opinion) would hopefully be available that would be a smoking gun or is a smoking gun a secondary priority?

LTM,

Don
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 03:20:37 PM »

What small diagnostic artifact (in your opinion) would hopefully be available that would be a smoking gun or is a smoking gun a secondary priority?
Hardly small diagnostic artifacts, but the engines on NR16020 presumably retain their metal tags legibly listing their serial numbers, as documented in the Ameliapedia article:
Quote
The Bureau of Air Commerce "Aircraft Inspection Report," dated 19 May 19 1937, lists the engines as Pratt & Whitney Model S3H1 Spec. No. 143, Serial No. 6150 and 6149, 550 H.P.
I would hope that an in situ inspection would be able to access the location of the tags to verify the numbers.

A copy of the Aircraft Inspection Report is available here.
LTM,

Bruce
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 03:22:54 PM by Bruce Thomas »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 04:41:52 PM »

Thus no outward identification to photograph to show to the naysayers.

We're not interested in convincing the naysayers.  We're interested in convincing rational individuals.  If there is an airplane wreck in the water off the west end of Nikumaroro it is, by definition, the Earhart aircraft.  Prior to the first work party's arrival in December 1938 only two aircraft were ever anywhere near Niku - Kingsford-Smith passed through the region on his way to Fiji in 1928, and Earhart went missing in the region in 1937. The island was continuously inhabited from December 1938 to 1963.  That entire period is well documented. No aircraft is recorded as having crashed or even been damaged at Niku during that period. From 1963 onwards there is no record of any aircraft coming to grief in the region.

What small diagnostic artifact (in your opinion) would hopefully be available that would be a smoking gun or is a smoking gun a secondary priority?
Anything that is conclusively identifiable as aircraft wreckage is a smoking gun.  To be conclusively identifiable as aircraft wreckage enough of the structure has it be visible to be sure it's an airplane.  If we can see that much structure we can see enough to conclusively identify an Electra.
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Protection for the Electra
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2014, 10:22:43 AM »

Thus no outward identification to photograph to show to the naysayers.

We're not interested in convincing the naysayers.  We're interested in convincing rational individuals. 
What small diagnostic artifact (in your opinion) would hopefully be available that would be a smoking gun or is a smoking gun a secondary priority?
Anything that is conclusively identifiable as aircraft wreckage is a smoking gun.  To be conclusively identifiable as aircraft wreckage enough of the structure has it be visible to be sure it's an airplane.  If we can see that much structure we can see enough to conclusively identify an Electra.

Makes perfect sense.  Thanx...

LTM,

Don
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