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[JNev]

Betty really did provide a fascinating window into a very unique event, IMO.

Ric's reply ("Didn't you hear me?  I said Norwich City...") is a poignant reminder of one of the more unlikely details, as I see it, had this been a hoax or mere commercial dramatization playing out.  Why would "something like NYC NYC..." pop up in such a message?  And there lay a wreck such a similar name which almost certainly would be identifiable to a strandee by some means either aboard her, or among the stuff left behind at the site by her survivors.  It is strongly arguable that they would not have known the island by its name.

Other details leap out - like the reference to the battery ("watch that battery" or to that effect) - what dramatist or re-enactor would think of that sort of thing, or know enough about Earhart's plane and predicament to discern that a battery might have been imperiled by where it was placed (nav station in rear, for one), etc.?

I'm well familiar with all the criticisms, and well aware of the remoteness of the possibility of these signals coming through - and yet Betty gave us something utterly singular: a snapshot of something that well may have been Earhart in her last hours of contact.  She did so by means of a special antenna that her clever father had rigged, and by a rather nice radio set of the day.  The right stars seem to have fallen for a bright and curious young girl at the time.  I'll always believe she was utterly faithful in her report, and that what she reported was, despite the odds, very likely the real deal.  Same for Dana Randolph and a handful of others, but it was Betty who brought us so much rich detail.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Just to follow up Jeff and Rics points on Norwich city,NYC/NYC.
Pronunciation of the word Norwich varies depending on the nationality of the person speaking it. Us Brits pronounce it as follows...

"Doing some reading lately, I've been pondering the strange pronunciations of English place names — namely, that of the 'w' in the "–wich" suffix, which, as I understand it, is not enunciated. For example, listening and watching many British programmes has taught me that Norwich is pronounced NORR-ich, Warwick is pronounced WORR-ick, and many of us know that Greenwich is pronounced GREN-ich."

Pronunciation:     n -O-r-i-dge (rhymes with porridge)   

Sounds like this in Brit speak

http://www.howdoyousaythatword.com/word/norwich/

Point being this, if NYC was meant to be Norwich City then it is more likely to have been spoken by a non-Brit voice. Yes, I know it doesn't narrow the field down much but it's something worth noting

[Tim Gard]

Just as there are dialects within the UK, which forms the basis for the opening scene in George Bernard Shaw's  Pygmalion (later to become My Fair Lady), there are also dialects within the US.

That means that one has to further factor in the way that Amelia would have said it after her visit to Britain.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Just as there are dialects within the UK, which forms the basis for the opening scene in George Bernard Shaw's  Pygmalion (later to become My Fair Lady), there are also dialects within the US.

That means that one has to further factor in the way that Amelia would have said it which also includes that she had visited Britain.

It would be interesting to find out how both AE and FN handled the missing 'W' in Norwich and the 'rhymes with porridge'

[Tim Gard]

Agree.

Fred was well traveled which may have further modified his pronunciation.

Another factor is the phasing effect of skip and the narrow screen grid modulation of Amelia's transmitter on the pronunciation of the word Norwich.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

A long career in merchant shipping I often wonder if FN was aware of the demise of the Norwich City in the Phoenix group of Islands Tim, even after moving on to navigation with Pan Am. Past history in merchant shipping and then moving onto Pan Am in the Pacific region.

[Tim Gard]

Agree.

Much has been made of Fred's cognizance of the Norwich City shipwreck.

A factor seems to have been his physical condition which may explain why Amelia didn't relay the lat longs for Gardener Island in her transmissions which I touched on in another thread.

Perhaps we should start a new thread for this discussion out of respect to Betty.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Agreed
If this does pan out its just a shame she won't be here to see it.

[Randy Conrad]

Helen Betty Brown

http://pattersonirrigator.com/bookmark/25351475/article-Helen Betty Brown




I ran across this article this morning and wanted to post it all for you. She was a remarkable lady  and still is a valuable asset to this organization. She will be greatly missed!!

[matt john barth]

I guess I am missing something  about AE and FN's landing. Do you know if Norwich City was still visible on the side of the ship in 1937? I know this has been talked about before. I am just trying to catch up. So if Norwich City wasn't readable would it be OK to speculate Fred new of the shipwreck? It seems as though this is what I am gathering from the above conversations.


Matt  Barth

[Ric Gillespie]

I guess I am missing something  about AE and FN's landing. Do you know if Norwich City was still visible on the side of the ship in 1937? I know this has been talked about before. I am just trying to catch up. So if Norwich City wasn't readable would it be OK to speculate Fred new of the shipwreck? It seems as though this is what I am gathering from the above conversations.

We don't know whether the name of the ship was still visible in 1937 but it could also have been on the lifeboats that washed up on the beach.  I don't have any way of knowing whether Fred had heard about the wreck. As far as I know it got no press coverage in the U.S. at the time.  In 1929 Fred was working out of New Orleans.

[Bruce Thomas]

I guess I am missing something  about AE and FN's landing. Do you know if Norwich City was still visible on the side of the ship in 1937? I know this has been talked about before. I am just trying to catch up. So if Norwich City wasn't readable would it be OK to speculate Fred new of the shipwreck? It seems as though this is what I am gathering from the above conversations.

We don't know whether the name of the ship was still visible in 1937 (it broke off and sank in January 1939) but it could also have been on the lifeboats that washed up on the beach.  I don't have any way of knowing whether Fred had heard about the wreck. As far as I know it got no press coverage in the U.S. at the time.  In 1929 Fred was working out of New Orleans.

Since the stern of SS Norwich City was still present in 1937, it has been speculated that her name might have been painted and visible on the stern, even if the fire had obliterated the markings on the bow. I've just realized that the first photo on TIGHAR's Research Bulletin 65 (a photo said to have been taken in 1935) shows some white patches on the stern that might be evidence of a name painted there.

BTW, the remark under that photo in Research Bulletin 65 that the 1935 photo "is the earliest known picture of Norwich City aground on the reef at Gardner Island" is no longer true. A picture apparently taken on 29 November 1929 during the rescue operation that ensued after the shipwreck is viewable on the website of Reardon Smith Ships.

[Ric Gillespie]

BTW, the remark under that photo in Research Bulletin 65 that the 1935 photo "is the earliest known picture of Norwich City aground on the reef at Gardner Island" is no longer true. A picture apparently taken on 29 November 1929 during the rescue operation that ensued after the shipwreck is viewable on the website of Reardon Smith Ships.

I love it when further research makes a Research Bulletin obsolete.

[Tim Gard]

I can't find the image just at the moment, but I recall one of the New Zealand Air Force shots showing white labeling on the port bow of the ship where Norwich City was known to be painted.

Was any refinement done to that photo to make the image clearer?

[Ric Gillespie]

Was any refinement done to that photo to make the image clearer?

No.  I try to be careful to only ask Jeff Glickman to work on questions that are vital to the investigation.