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[Greg Daspit]

Have you not seen this photo?

There is a vertical line in the window glazing that starts about 8 rivets from the upper right and extends down. I think it is a scratch on the photo or some other digital artifact but I'm not sure. What is wierd is it turns left a bit when it gets to the top of the frame.

[Doug Ledlie]

Hatch or patch (again)...

[Ric Gillespie]

There is a vertical line in the window glazing that starts about 8 rivets from the upper right and extends down. I think it is a scratch on the photo or some other digital artifact but not I'm not sure. What is wierd is it turns left a bit when it gets to the top of the frame.

I think I see what you see.  In Photoshop I cranked up the brightness and the line appeared.  Then I embossed the image.  There's a similar vertical mark on the standard cabin window, much shorter and a bit thicker.   Like you, I can't tell if these are flaws in the photo or scratches on the windows. The line on the big window could even be a crack.

I'll run this by Jeff Glickman.  If it's a crack in the window you may have just confirmed our hypothesis about the motivation for replacing the window with a patch.

[Ric Gillespie]

Hatch or patch (again)...

Patch.  I can see no evidence that it was a hatch.  Before May 30, 1937 it is always a window from the time it first appears in early 1937.  From May 30 all the way to Lae, New Guinea it's solid aluminum - a patch.

[James Champion]

If it's a crack in the window you may have just confirmed our hypothesis about the motivation for replacing the window with a patch.

Mighty straight line for it to be a crack.

[Doug Ledlie]

Actually my point was to evaluate the possible set of three March 37 photos that show window, window, nothing...with the plane looking like it hasn't rolled.  Seems like a hinged hatch like in a B-24 or other method of opening might be an idea... darn low res photos...

[Ted G Campbell]

Ric,

Why are you always at odds with me when it comes to posting on this site?

I suggested that there may be more information from the “night” shot of the Electra and you posted “haven’t you seen -  the 1/3 window outline”.  Hell yes I’ve seen the 1/3 window outline, why do you think I pointed out the “night shot”.  It was to give an alternative view of the original window installation.

Damn it Ric, you have the widow Patch, why do you get so protective of your theory of how the thing was attached? 

You know I support everything TIGHAR is doing but lately I am getting the impression that appreciation of this support is subject to your mind set at the time.  Keep it up and support will diminish!

Calmly look at what I pointed out and respond accordingly.

Ted Campbell

[Greg Daspit]

If it's a crack in the window you may have just confirmed our hypothesis about the motivation for replacing the window with a patch.

Mighty straight line for it to be a crack.

I agree. Maybe plexiglass might crack like that though. It's a question that had been bothering me for a while. I'm thinking there is a very small chance it is a crack. Either way it would be nice confirm what it is and put it to bed.

[Greg Daspit]

Hatch or patch (again)...

The picture where the Lav window is not there is probably before the window was even installed. I can't see the patch or RDF and the cabin window appears to have that horizontal bar, and the engine cowlings look painted

[Ric Gillespie]

Actually my point was to evaluate the possible set of three March 37 photos that show window, window, nothing...with the plane looking like it hasn't rolled. 

I'm afraid I don't know what  "possible set of three March 37 photos that show window, window, nothing...with the plane looking like it hasn't rolled." you're talking about.

[Ric Gillespie]

I'm thinking there is a very small chance it is a crack. Either way it would be nice confirm what it is and put it to bed.

I've asked Jeff Glickman for his opinion.

[Ric Gillespie]

The picture where the Lav window is not there is probably before the window was even installed. I can't see the patch or RDF and the cabin window appears to have that horizontal bar, and the engine cowlings look painted

The only time the cowlings were painted was at the time of the Bendix race in September 1936 - long before the window was installed.

[Nathan Leaf]

There is a vertical line in the window glazing that starts about 8 rivets from the upper right and extends down. I think it is a scratch on the photo or some other digital artifact but I'm not sure. What is wierd is it turns left a bit when it gets to the top of the frame.

I just figured that was the reflection of a straight edge from something inside the aircraft, much like we see the interior through the other window forward on the fuselage ... looks too "engineered" for a scratch, especially with the right angle to the left near the top of the window frame.  Interesting.

The other interesting thing of note about the photo is the reflection of the wing on the fuselage skin behind the ladies.  Note the warping of the straight edge of the wing and its shadow below ... this at least partially, if not wholly, explains the 'puckering' or 'bulging' effect seen in the more reflective patch in the Miami and Darwin photos.

[Ric Gillespie]

Ric,

Why are you always at odds with me when it comes to posting on this site?

I suggested that there may be more information from the “night” shot of the Electra and you posted “haven’t you seen -  the 1/3 window outline”.  Hell yes I’ve seen the 1/3 window outline, why do you think I pointed out the “night shot”.  It was to give an alternative view of the original window installation.

Damn it Ric, you have the widow Patch, why do you get so protective of your theory of how the thing was attached? 

You know I support everything TIGHAR is doing but lately I am getting the impression that appreciation of this support is subject to your mind set at the time.  Keep it up and support will diminish!

Calmly look at what I pointed out and respond accordingly.

Ted, I honestly don't think the photo you posted is anywhere near as good a source of information as the photo taken in Miami.  The resolution is poor and it was taken before the airplane was repaired.  The Miami photo shows us terrific detail of three edges of the window frame and it was taken the day before the patch was installed.

I know and appreciate that you're a generous supporter but I won't agree with you just to make you feel good.  I apologize if I am occasionally, perhaps even frequently, tactless but I sincerely hope that I am not "protective" of what we have learned from the photos and the aircraft we examined.  If we got it wrong I invite anyone to show us how and why we got it wrong.

 

[Greg Daspit]

There is a vertical line in the window glazing that starts about 8 rivets from the upper right and extends down. I think it is a scratch on the photo or some other digital artifact but I'm not sure. What is wierd is it turns left a bit when it gets to the top of the frame.

I just figured that was the reflection of a straight edge from something inside the aircraft, much like we see the interior through the other window forward on the fuselage ... looks too "engineered" for a scratch, especially with the right angle to the left near the top of the window frame.  Interesting.

Yep. Or Lav door slightly open and light getting thru the door and door jamb.