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[Ric Gillespie]

Possibly, the source material for 2-1-V-2?

Possibly, but why would you carry spare sheet metal that wasn't ALCLAD?

[Steve Lee]

There has been some discussion on this thread about how the Miami Patch was fabricated, whether Pan Am was involved, etc.  In this light I find an article titled ‘Found Objects’ in an old issue of Tighar Tracks (http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/1996Vol_12/objects.pdf) to be of interest.  It describes a piece of aluminum designated ‘artifact 2-2’ that was found during NIKU I.  In discussing how this artifact might be linked to the Electra, it is stated that

“It is worth noting that an inventory of the Earhart aircraft taken after the
March 20, 1937 crash in Hawaii lists “2 Pcs. Sheet metal Alcoa” (Item #66) as being among
the spare parts carried.”

Of course, we don’t know for sure that spare aluminum was carried on the Electra on the second world flight, but it certainly is worth keeping in mind the fact that Earhart did do so on her first circumnavigation attempt.

Interesting point.  Thanks Steve. We don't know how big or of what thickness the sheets were and, as you say, we don't know whether spare aluminum sheet was carried on the second attempt - but at least on the first attempt there seems to have been a recognition that a need for sheet might arise for minor repairs. 

Below are the photos and text for Artifact 2-2 (properly 2-1-V-2) from the NTSB Lab report. Elsewhere in the report it mentions that although this metal is 2024 (same as 24ST) alloy aluminum it is not "clad" (not ALCLAD).
Ask yourself this.  Where is there a sheet of aluminum on any aircraft that has a finished edge that is not riveted to something?

Ric, actually, the question I ask myself is this:

“If Amelia was carrying spare Alclad on the Electra, doesn't it stand to reason that she got it from the place that just finished fixing her plane--Lockheed--and so its Alcoa markings should match those we have seen on the Electra, i.e., ALC 24ST?…”

[Ric Gillespie]

Ric, actually, the question I ask myself is this:

“If Amelia was carrying spare Alclad on the Electra, doesn't it stand to reason that she got it from the place that just finished fixing her plane--Lockheed--and so its Alcoa markings should match those we have seen on the Electra, i.e., ALC 24ST?…”

Yes, that would be the question you would ask yourself and you would assume that spare sheets were also carried on the second attempt and that the size of the spare sheets was adequate to make the patch and you would answer yourself, "Yes, it stands to reason, therefore 2-2-V-1 cannot possibly be the Miami patch." and you would encourage TIGHAR to abandon the silly notion that we have a piece of NR16020.

And that's why you're a troll on moderation.

[Tim Collins]

What could they possibly have been anticipating to carry, of all things, spare sheet metal?

[Greg Daspit]

“If Amelia was carrying spare Alclad on the Electra, doesn't it stand to reason that she got it from the place that just finished fixing her plane--Lockheed--and so its Alcoa markings should match those we have seen on the Electra, i.e., ALC 24ST?…”

Several things wrong with assumptions in that question:
The first Model 10 was built in 1934
Earhart's special was finished in 1936
The repairs were made in 1937
The markings seen could be from 1934 stock but changed by 1937.
Also, the spare metal carried on the first attempt could have been from different stock of spare metal, or replaced with different metal on the 2nd attempt, or have had more spares added or spares not carried at all on the 2nd attempt.

[Jerry Germann]

Question for those who know....is non AL clad aluminum easier to work with than that with clad, for a quick patch job?

[Ted G Campbell]

Ric,
Re your question in reply #778

Engine cooling baffles
Wheel fenders
Fixed trim tabs
Wheel mud scrapers
Cabin heater heat shields
Muffler heat exchangers
APU heat shields

Just to name a few!

Ted Campbell

[JNev]

Metal work always fascinated me above all other A&P work... can't leave it alone -

She might have gotten a nice little batch of metal from new stock somewhere, or she might have gotten some random 'scrap' (perhaps new metal left as cuttings from larger sheet) that was big and attractive enough to serve her notions (likely Mantz's, is my guess) of what might be needed along the way.

---

Clad material is essentially no different from non-clad material to work with - you'd not notice the difference in drilling in forming.  The cladding has a negligible effect on strength or rigidity.

---

Engine cooling baffles
Wheel fenders
Fixed trim tabs
Wheel mud scrapers
Cabin heater heat shields
Muffler heat exchangers
APU heat shields

Interesting thought, but those all tend to have some sort of edge 'fastener' present.

Cooling baffles frequently have soft sealing material attached along the free edge, and when not are often shaped fit next into odd places or a curvature; a pure straight edge as we see might not be so common (is not in my experience, but now someone will find a photo...) -

Fenders and the like are typically reinforced; I think the Lockheed had a form of metal beading riveted around the edges (but a close-up would tell for sure).  Don't know much about 'scrapers'...

Fixed tabs are a good example, agreed.

Cabin heat shields and heat exchangers could, but usually these are formed into cylindrical sections.  Good thought, but we seem to be looking at 'stock' - unless it was from a fairly large article such as a shield or exchanger and cut loose from fastening features, etc.

No APU in the Lockheed other than the 'Armstrong' (it could be hand propped if you were tall enough and had the coconuts to do it...).

---

I know the "A D" marks bug a number of folks regarding 'era'; it bugs me a bit, too - I see the point, but still believe 'the line' should be better defined as to when that change occurred before this pursuit could possibly be disqualified, all the nice pictures so far notwithstanding.  The problem I have with all the nice pictures, so far, is whether we're really seeing a meaningful sample (and through the howls I'll also say I'm not totally certain of what we're seeing on 2-2-V-1, even though I know what it seems to be). 

It probably bugs Ric that this bugs me a bit, but I just see it as one signature detail whose importance is not yet known for certain; it also bugs me that others who are really bugged by this aren't bugged enough to dig deeper for more definitive evidence about that if what we're doing bugs them so badly. 

'A D' - bugger.

'night.

[Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt]

As we know, A.E. and F.N. left behind all the things they didn't really need in Lae. So I don't think they would have carried metal spare parts with them when they were airborn for Howland Island.
Oskar, 4421A

[Ric Gillespie]

It probably bugs Ric that this bugs me a bit, but I just see it as one signature detail whose importance is not yet known for certain; it also bugs me that others who are really bugged by this aren't bugged enough to dig deeper for more definitive evidence about that if what we're doing bugs them so badly. 

It bugs me too.  It's a fly in an otherwise perfect ointment.  We're not ignoring it and we haven't dismissed it as unimportant. We have not said that 2-2-V-1 is definitely from the Miami Patch, nor will we.  We'll publish our research so far (it now looks like it will be Monday) and we'll continue to learn as much as we can about the artifact.  If we find something that legitimately disqualifies it as being from the Miami Patch we'll say so, but right now there is so much hard evidence that says it IS from the patch that it seems most likely that there is a reasonable explanation for the AD.  Meanwhile we're not going to provide a stage for troll dances that contain nothing but opinion.

[Monty Fowler]

True, Oskar, but we can't assume that. Unfortunately no one thought to inventory what they left behind in Lae, or if that was done, the record has not surfaced.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

[Ric Gillespie]

Unfortunately no one thought to inventory what they left behind in Lae, or if that was done, the record has not surfaced.

The only reason the airplane was inventoried in Hawaii was because Earhart was on a ship to California the same day as the accident and left it to the Army to clean up the mess and ship the plane back to Lockheed for repair. 

[Joe Cerniglia]

Meanwhile we're not going to provide a stage for troll dances that contain nothing but opinion.

Reminds me of a quote from Sam Rayburn.  "Anyone can kick a barn down, but it takes a carpenter to build one." 

Carry on, carpenters.  Your work is admirable.

[Monty Fowler]

Let's see, 2-V-1-1 has  been subjected to the following information-gathering methods:

- Mark 1 eyeball.
- Hyperspectral imaging.
- Multispectrum paint analysis.
- Materials composition analysis.

Are there any other tests of a scientific nature that we can perform on this piece of aluminum to pry additional secrets from it?

LTM, who knows that answers cost,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

[Ric Gillespie]

Let's see, 2-V-1-1 has  been subjected to the following information-gathering methods:

- Mark 1 eyeball.
- Hyperspectral imaging.
- Multispectrum paint analysis.
- Materials composition analysis.

To be exact:
- Materials analysis by NTSB Lab
- Materials analysis by ALCOA
- Failures opinion by retired FAA expert
- Two forensic attempts by Winterthur Lab to find paint, one on exterior, one on interior - both unsuccessful.
- Aircraft-of-origin research by USAF Museum and TIGHAR Commission
- Forensic imaging analysis
- Hyperspectral imaging (results pending)
- Structures comparison/analysis with two Lockheed Model 10s, c/n 1052 and 1091

Are there any other tests of a scientific nature that we can perform on this piece of aluminum to pry additional secrets from it?

Yes.  We haven't really begun to do an in-depth analysis of the damage (edge failures, dents, gouges, etc.).  For that we'll need forensic metallurgical  expertise.  We're working on that.