Malaysian Flight 370

[Tim Gard]

Tim, they did indeed find debris from Air France flight 447 floating on the surface, most noticeably the big vertical stabiliser (composite material construction) and, un-inflated life jackets and various other objects that were buoyant. However, that was little help in actually locating the aircraft wreckage, which took another two years and mega bucks before they located it. I have a feeling Malaysian Airlines flight

Finding the vertical stabilizer was evidence that the plane had indeed gone down rather than having been hijacked and landed elsewhere. Finding the black boxes is a common next step once the crash has become a reality and the general area established.

knowing the line of flight for 447 reduced the search area considerably as does Amelia's Line Of Position aid in locating the Electra. The depth of water in which 447 sank was a considerable hurdle.

A floating palate in a recognised shipping lane is not proof of an air disaster. Maybe if it was accompanied by suitcases and other items expected to be found in a cargo area, but that then raises the question of how it exited the fuselage intact.

[manjeet aujla]

A point is made in this article, towards the end, that even if the blackbox is found, it would be very hard to prove pilot suicide ....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334

because the cvr would have been written  over after 2 hours, and the data recorder would likely record that the plane flew on normally till it ran out of fuel.

This is setting up to be discussed in conspiracy theories for decades.

[Tim Gard]

I didn't realize that flight 447 was feared to have been a theft.

Doesn't that mean you're making the same mistake? You're not sure whether, at any stage, 447 was presumed to be hijacked but you are sure about what has happened to 370.

[Tim Gard]

A point is made in this article, towards the end, that even if the blackbox is found, it would be very hard to prove pilot suicide ....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=665&objectid=11226334

because the cvr would have been written  over after 2 hours, and the data recorder would likely record that the plane flew on normally till it ran out of fuel.

This is setting up to be discussed in conspiracy theories for decades.

I can think of instances where pilot suicide was initially assumed and subsequently disproven ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig9LE0Vp1YM

I can also think of instances where pilot suicide was initially dismissed and later proven ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QYJZBaQCds

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

The latest images appear to show some 122 "potential objects" in an area of around 400 sq km (160 sq miles), about 2,557km from Perth, Australia.

One is up to 23m in length while others appear to be "bright", possibly indicating solid material, Malaysia's acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein has said.
Aircraft and ships have not yet identified the possible debris.
The minister added that it was too early to tell whether any of the objects were from flight MH370, but that they were "the most credible lead that we have."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26514556

[JNev]

I didn't realize that flight 447 was feared to have been a theft.

Doesn't that mean you're making the same mistake? You're not sure whether, at any stage, 447 was presumed to be hijacked but you are sure about what has happened to 370.

No, not sure at all, Tim.  'Feared' and 'known' aren't the same; nor were the earmarks of the two flights as I've understood them.

Like we agreed above, 'creepy' situation, still.

[Tim Gard]

No, not sure at all, Tim.  'Feared' and 'known' aren't the same; nor were the earmarks of the two flights as I've understood them.

I take you to have said that because the same ping technique was used the outcome of the two flights was equally accurate, but now you're not sure?

[JNev]

No, not sure at all, Tim.  'Feared' and 'known' aren't the same; nor were the earmarks of the two flights as I've understood them.

I take you to have said that because the same ping technique was used the outcome of the two flights was equally accurate, but now you're not sure?

I wasn't aware of Sat ping being used on the earlier loss.  I'm merely noting that I was not aware that the Airbus / Atlantic loss was ever considered a possible 'taking', that's all.  For some reason it seemed like a mechanical / system issue had always been strongly suspected, but maybe I overlooked something.

[Ric Gillespie]

CNN is still doing almost non-stop coverage of the non-news about MH370.  I'm now apparently in their stable of "experts" and I have to ration the time I can give them.  I was on (off and on) from 8:30 to 10:00 last night, then they called me back and wanted me back on at 11:00.  I turned them down but agreed to do 8:00 to 9:00 tonight (Sunday).  It's all pretty silly and the constant attempt to find something to talk about results is some pretty silly things being said.  One "expert" last night night said that he was encouraged by what he felt was growing "momentum" in the search, indicating that we're getting closer to finding the plane.  Say what?  Despite the deployment of greater and greater assets, nothing, nada, zip has been found.  Contrast that to our work on the Earhart disappearance we have turned up an abundance of solid clues in multiple avenues of investigation, all pointing to the same conclusion. THAT is momentum.

What baffles me in the MH370 case is the resistance to accept and pursue clues that are staring the investigators in the face.  We have an airplane that is acknowledged to have been abducted by someone with intimate knowledge of of its systems.  They took deliberate steps to make the airplane "disappear" from in-flight monitoring then they changed course and continued to fly for several hours.  Why?  Now we learn that the pilot had been practicing "emergency landings" on his home flight simulator.  Everyone is quick to dismiss that as something that is perfectly reasonable for a dedicated pilot to do, and under normal circumstances I would agree.  But these are not normal circumstances.  I'd like to know what kind of "emergency landings" he was practicing.  Landing with thrust -reversers inop?  Landing with an engine out?  Perfectly normal.  But what if he was practicing short field landings with no mechanical or systems malfunctions?  That wouldn't be automatically damning, but it would be interesting to know - especially since he tried to erase his computer.

Maybe these clues are being followed and they're just not talking about it.  I hope so.

[JNev]

CNN is still doing almost non-stop coverage of the non-news about MH370.  I'm now apparently in their stable of "experts" and I have to ration the time I can give them.  I was on (off and on) from 8:30 to 10:00 last night, then they called me back and wanted me back on at 11:00.  I turned them down but agreed to do 8:00 to 9:00 tonight (Sunday).  It's all pretty silly and the constant attempt to find something to talk about results is some pretty silly things being said.  One "expert" last night night said that he was encouraged by what he felt was growing "momentum" in the search, indicating that we're getting closer to finding the plane.  Say what?  Despite the deployment of greater and greater assets, nothing, nada, zip has been found.  Contrast that to our work on the Earhart disappearance we have turned up an abundance of solid clues in multiple avenues of investigation, all pointing to the same conclusion. THAT is momentum.

What baffles me in the MH370 case is the resistance to accept and pursue clues that are staring the investigators in the face.  We have an airplane that is acknowledged to have been abducted by someone with intimate knowledge of of its systems.  They took deliberate steps to make the airplane "disappear" from in-flight monitoring then they changed course and continued to fly for several hours.  Why?  Now we learn that the pilot had been practicing "emergency landings" on his home flight simulator.  Everyone is quick to dismiss that as something that is perfectly reasonable for a dedicated pilot to do, and under normal circumstances I would agree.  But these are not normal circumstances.  I'd like to know what kind of "emergency landings" he was practicing.  Landing with thrust -reversers inop?  Landing with an engine out?  Perfectly normal.  But what if he was practicing short field landings with no mechanical or systems malfunctions?  That wouldn't be automatically damning, but it would be interesting to know - especially since he tried to erase his computer.

Maybe these clues are being followed and they're just not talking about it.  I hope so.

I suspect your closing statement may be far more true than we'll ever know.  I still have a very strong suspicion about where that airplane - ain't... and what you've pointed out is utterly the case.

The satellite 'pings' / handshakes and the re-analysis is all interesting - and I seriously doubt the reliability of it.  I cannot do so on technical grounds, I'm not technically able; but given the aggregate of observations it does not pass the smell test any more than last month's tuna salad in my fridge.

But enough of my own notions - what's important is the whole, big picture - what is the evidence?  You are correct - there's far more to suggest Earhart and Noonan on Niku than Flight 370 in the southern Indian Ocean at the moment.

Process counts - and what a shot you have at highlighting TIGHAR's way of approaching investigations.  Hope to see you 'on' later.

[Ian MacKay]

CNN is still doing almost non-stop coverage of the non-news about MH370. 

Others cleverer than I have recently claimed that CNN stands for "Crash News Network"

[C.W. Herndon]

I'd like to know what kind of "emergency landings" he was practicing.

How about maybe on a narrow runway?

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Latest news on the search...

"An Australian vessel searching for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane has detected signals consistent with those from aircraft black boxes.

Australian defence vessel Ocean Shield acquired the signal twice, once for more than two hours, Australia said.

Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, who is leading the search, called it the "most promising lead" so far.

But he said more information was needed: "We haven't found the aircraft yet and we need further confirmation."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26917934

[JNev]

Latest news on the search...

"An Australian vessel searching for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane has detected signals consistent with those from aircraft black boxes.

Australian defence vessel Ocean Shield acquired the signal twice, once for more than two hours, Australia said.

Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, who is leading the search, called it the "most promising lead" so far.

But he said more information was needed: "We haven't found the aircraft yet and we need further confirmation."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26917934

Here's hoping - it's getting very late for pingers to still be alive.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Second that Jeff. I do hope they have better luck in beating the time limit than Air France 447. It took 2 years of searching after initially failing to locate the flight recorder boxes before they gave up 'pinging'.