Niku VIII Plan

[Tim Mellon]

Where in relationship to the anomoly is site #1?   

All around. These Standard Definition video captures are from the first 2012 ROV dive. The rope was found here and the Site is listed first in the Research Bulletin #65. The debris field extends from ~975 feet down to ~1010 feet.

[Dan Swift]

Don't take the law suit personally!! 
Let's see: 
Named personally in the law suit. 
Trying to wreck Tighar financially, an organization Ric has devoted decades of his life to. 
Heck, I as a member am even took it personally! 

[Monty Fowler]

Just an observation. The words Listen and Silent have the same letters in them. Coincidence? I think not.

Regardless, I've sent in a check for Niku VIII, doing what I can, when I can. I encourage other TIGHARs to do the same in a year-end blitz, which you can write off on your taxes (woot!).

LTM, who thinks VIII will be the lucky number,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER

[Tim Mellon]

Just an observation. The words Listen and Silent have the same letters in them. Coincidence? I think not.

So Monty, how does this relate to "Tinsel" or "Inlets"?

[C.W. Herndon]

       Viewing your second attachment, You note what you believe to be housing, next to the valve, ....oh, if there were only cylinder cooling fins visible on that chunk of whatever it is.

Jerry, you must have whispered into Santa's ear.

Upon further examination of that second attachment, I believe there to be cooling fins apparent in the upper left hand corner, as shown in the enlargement attached to this post, within the green rectangle. Also, if I am not mistaken, there appears to be an intact valve casing just above those fins, with its own pushrod casing descending to the right in a "south-southeasterly" direction. Also, for comparison, a picture of an actual Wasp valve casing.

In the minutes before this frame, there are many other appearances of largely intact valve casings, some with pushrods still attached and some not. I shall await receiving the High Definition footage of this part of the dive, however, before  commenting further. The 16 minute HD run that I already have ends just  before the ROV takes its trip downhill.

In February 1942 a Brewster Buffalo, a US Marine Corps fighter plane of the time, crash landed in 10 feet of water near the runway on Midway Atoll. The wreckage was recently discovered and an under water video made at the site. There are some excellent pictures of aircraft parts that have been in the water almost as long as AE's Electra. You can look at the video and form your own opinion about what might be left of AE's aircraft at Niku.

[George Lam]

Just an observation. The words Listen and Silent have the same letters in them. Coincidence? I think not.

So Monty, how does this relate to "Tinsel" or "Inlets"?

A quick internet search revealed the relationship:



Now that it's settled, should we get back on topic, niku VIII plan?

[Ric Gillespie]

Listen at the inlets for the silence of the tinsel.
(Old Buddhist saying. Very profound.)

[Andrew M McKenna]

C.W. Says

"There are some excellent pictures of aircraft parts that have been in the water almost as long as AE's Electra. You can look at the video and form your own opinion about what might be left of AE's aircraft at Niku."

10 ft deep is a very dynamic place to be, either in or out of the lagoon.  What you see left of the Buffalo reflects 70 years of dynamics at 10' working on the machine.  Not much of it left.

Personally, I don't think the electra ended up resting in 10 ft of water, I think it ended up in deeper water where the forces of nature are significantly reduced, and I'm hopeful that we're going to find much larger pieces of the aircraft in much deeper water.  I don't subscribe to the "ground up into little pieces" solution.

Hopefully, the next trip out there will prove me right.

Andrew

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Some aircraft wreckage brought up from the bottom around Midway Island. Suspected to be B-29 remains? Note the condition of the Alclad, pitted and full of erosion/corrosion holes. Benign flat sea floor location.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Interesting narrative of a dive onto a B-26 wreck that has some similarities in what you would expect and, what they actually find...
B-26 Bomber
Type:
WW2 Plane wreck dive (scattered pieces)
Access:
Dive mooring at end, underwater buoy at beginning
Position:
Underwater start marker at 17° 39.910'S, 177° 14.946'E
Surface end marker at 17° 40.0'S, 177° 15.0'E
Depths:
75-30' (23-9m)
Date:
March, 2005
Visibility:
50' (15m)
Dive shop:
Yes, at Beachcomber or Treasure Islands
Snorkeling:
Yes, on the reef near the end marker
Features:
Old plane wreck from World War II

"The Allies built the Nadi airport during World War II so they could bomb Japanese positions in the Pacific Theater.  The B-26 was a medium-range bomber with a pair of 2,000 horsepower radial engines.  It carried an upper turret, waist, & nose gunners, and a crew of 6-7.  The B-26 was made famous by Jimmy Doolittle as the first Allied bomber to attack Tokyo (that raid left from an aircraft carrier and was essentially a suicide/propaganda mission, as little damage was inflicted, none of the planes had enough fuel to land after making their bombing run, and many of the crew did not survive).  The planes from Nadi apparently bombed Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands, 1,100 miles to the NW.  We were told that the wrecked plane was one that ran out of fuel before it could return home.
Chris and I actually did this dive twice as we missed the second half the first time.  The start location is somewhat secret (which is why we took our GPS to get an accurate fix).  In fact, the dive mooring is actually about 6' (2m) underwater!  The idea seems to be to go in at the "start" marker but to have your surface support person tie the dinghy back at the end marker (which is well marked on the surface).
The plane is scattered over quite a large area. Since visibility is often limited, the dive operators have connected bits of the plane together with a string on the bottom.  What they didn't tell us the first time is that the string ends at the second engine but continues again about 20' (6m) off to the right.  On our first dive we just continued on straight and never found the rest of the plane.

At the start-mooring, we splashed into 75' (23m) and started following the string at the bottom.  We soon came to the nose-wheel, which is one of the more recognizable parts of the plane, followed by bits of the wing and/or tail.  Then we found 2 big blobs of what we first thought were coral heads, but closer inspection showed them to be the huge radial engines, surprisingly close together.  We found more bits of the wings and fuselage, but they weren't very recognizable.

The end of the dive gets to some big coral formations, which we (surprisingly) found more interesting than random hunks of old plane.  The corals were bright and vibrant, with lots of fish.  Since the coral climbed fairly close to the surface, we could easily make a pair of safety stops and still have interesting things to look at.

I have highlighted the parts of the narrative that appear significant. I don't necessarily agree with the statement that the Doolitle mission was "essentially a suicide/propaganda mission", I would suggest that it was more of a declaration of intent IMHO

Here's the image of the nose wheel, tyre deflated but still recognisable as a wheel underneath the marine growth.

[Tim Mellon]

Let's be historically accurate, folks.

The Doolittle raid was conducted entirely with Mitchell B-25 aircraft, not the Martin B-26. Review the movie "30 Seconds Over Tokyo".

[Ric Gillespie]

Interesting narrative of a dive onto a B-26 wreck that has some similarities in what you would expect and, what they actually find...

It's not a B-26.  It's probably a B-25.  The listed location is 7.8 nm off Lautoka on Viti Levu, the largest of the Fiji Islands.  I know the area well.  We staged out of Lautoka aboard Nai'a on at least one of our expeditions. The nautical environment is nothing like Nikumaroro.

The wreckage described sounds typical of WWII aircraft that crashed in relatively shallow tropical waters.   We have good underwater video of a B-25 that hit the water hard in Jaluit lagoon in the Marshalls.  Same sort of thing.  Lots of scattered pieces, some coral encrusted, but readily recognizable as airplane debris.

[Tim Mellon]

Ric, how do you know that what they observed was not a B-26? Is the wheel unique? Their error was only supposing that Dolittle flew the B-26, which has nothing to do with this wreck.

[Ric Gillespie]

Ric, how do you know that what they observed was not a B-26?

Medium bomber operations in the Pacific Theater were almost uniquely B-25s but I see that in 1942 the 38th Bomb Group operated Marauders out of New Caledonia and Fiji in raids against the Solomons - so it could be a B-26.

The wheel in the photo has six spokes.  The photos I've found of B-25 and B-26 nose wheels show eight spokes - so we can't tell what it is from the wheel.  Maybe it's something else entirely.  It wouldn't be the first time local lore misidentified a wreck.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Interesting narrative of a dive onto a B-26 wreck that has some similarities in what you would expect and, what they actually find...

It's not a B-26.  It's probably a B-25.  The listed location is 7.8 nm off Lautoka on Viti Levu, the largest of the Fiji Islands.  I know the area well.  We staged out of Lautoka aboard Nai'a on at least one of our expeditions. The nautical environment is nothing like Nikumaroro.

The wreckage described sounds typical of WWII aircraft that crashed in relatively shallow tropical waters.   We have good underwater video of a B-25 that hit the water hard in Jaluit lagoon in the Marshalls.  Same sort of thing.  Lots of scattered pieces, some coral encrusted, but readily recognizable as airplane debris.

Yes, lagoon wrecks do seem to hold up well, Truk etc... shame AE didn't put the Electra into the lagoon on Gardner, it would have saved an awful lot of hassle ;)