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Author Topic: Is the Seven an "A"?  (Read 104047 times)

Stacy Galloway

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #75 on: July 02, 2013, 10:23:24 PM »

Been lurking for a while - first post...  PS - this forum has the toughest captcha I've ever come across ;)

It's amazing how this mystery is been solved by piecing together the most unlikely evidence - each portion on it's own almost unbelievable. And the faith of some amazing people stitching it all together... thanks.

2 cents- I can't imagine someone writing a message to be seen from the air and deciding to do it in their handwriting... the "E" makes zero sense to me.
PPS - seriously - I can't solve this captcha!   :)

Hi Chris- Welcome! :)

I, too, have been lurking a while. I completely agree with you. The G Feature does not resemble an E to me either.

When I saw it, my first thought was that is was a map of the island. It reminded me of something that would have been created by someone who had a general idea of the shape of the island and had explored the island by foot.

It's that big 'head thing' that keeps bringing me back to the shape of the island. That particular part of the 'G Feature' is similar to the location of the Norwich City and the potential landing strip.

Taking the leap that it is a map of the island, I wonder if at one time there were darker 'markers' on the map itself (kind of like 'X' marks the spot). Perhaps markers were indicating the location of Camp Zero, the Seven Site, the plane, etc. Of course this is all conjecture and takes me right back to the beginning of my post. I just don't think it's an "E".

And to address the subject of the thread... I don't think the 7 is an A. In my opinion, even if this site was used by the castaways it was a camp, not a signal to airplanes.

LTM who still searches for the hidden treasure,
Stacy
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2013, 05:50:35 AM »

"not a signal to airplanes"

I'm sure it has been commented on before Stacy somewhere in the forum that we have all made the assumption, at some stage, that they were expecting to be spotted/rescued from the air. They knew there were no planes in that area of the Pacific, at that time, so would they not be preparing for rescue by signalling a ship at sea rather than the air option, which didn't exist at that time, only later?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #77 on: July 03, 2013, 09:00:27 AM »

They knew there were no planes in that area of the Pacific, at that time, so would they not be preparing for rescue by signalling a ship at sea rather than the air option, which didn't exist at that time, only later?

This all comes back to the question of whether they were able to receive news reports about the search.
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Bill de Creeft

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #78 on: July 03, 2013, 01:07:33 PM »

Maybe I'm wrong but I can't believe there had been no discussions about possible sources of rescue before the flight...
The Lexington is/was an *Aircraft * Carrier....As I've said, one of my earliest memories is seeing it leave California, and being told by my mother "It's going to go look for Amelia Earhart"...
I have been involved in finding people ...and even more times in just picking people up on schedule from a beach.
I used to drop off Fish & Game personel at one spot on a beach and then pick them up at a later stage of the tide in a different spot on the beach... they are really hard to see even if they are waving.
We finally developed a routine of throwing a rock in the water when they saw me overhead...big white splash next to the line of the beach much more effective than waving coats or arms !
As for "assuming"...people drown while others sit in offices and "assume"!?!
If I am lost, do not assume how I will spell my name ...look for Anything that says Human Being !
People "can only last so long in the water" ...
(story alert!) I have found people floating in the water up to their necks in the ocean on a November night ..in Alaska..hanging onto the edge of their boat and shining a flashlight!
They lasted 45 minutes ; long enough to get a boat to them which grabbed them just as the boat they were hanging onto went under.
I asked them how they did it and they said they just but on all the clothes they had and hung on...I said how did they feel...they said "Really tired"
I had heard them give the mayday just as the boat sank,and then had to argue with the other guy in the office about whether they were really where they thought they were...He was the guy I was flying for at the time Air Taxi..wheel planes..and I finally said
"I'm taking a plane and looking where they said"....and sure enough they were just around the corner where the tide had carried them.
It was 20 foot seas that night and the boat had come down on a big log on a swell...The other guy in the office was drinking...He's long gone now.
There were no immersion suits in those days...
After that I used to swim in 45 degree water just to see how I could do...that was the water temp on the 4th of July that year and i lasted 45 minutes, off an island where we were picnicking...but that was 30 years ago !
I have used heroic restraint not to tell "War Stories" but you understand my frustration, maybe, ...
In a room full of people there will be a lot of theories ...it's one thing to decide what you have found; quite another to decide what you *might* or *should* find...or where!
Well, Shoot...enough said !
To NZ !! (and look at that surf line !?!)
Bill
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« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 01:19:52 PM by Bill de Creeft »
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Stacy Galloway

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #79 on: July 03, 2013, 02:13:05 PM »

I do believe they did what they could to attract attention to themselves. I would think they left signals that could be seen via air and sea. If they were able, then they probably built several signs/signals.

Many others on this forum, have said AE and FN may have used debris to build a signal on the beach, may have 'painted' SOS on Norwich City, etc. I personally believe they did everything they could to attract attention to any potential rescuer (air and sea).

I just don't believe the seven site was intentially made into an "A" as a signal. I believe if they were on the seven site then it was used as a camp area. Of course this is all conjecture and my personal opinion. AE and FN could have spent hours/days creating an A to draw attention to themselves. It would be interesting to research stories from the 1930's and see what the perception was of how people behaved while stranded on islands. That peek into the past may give us some more clues into what the norms were during that time.

This past weekend I spent some time in antique stores searching for books dated early 1900s. I wanted to see if I could find a story that had been written about a scenario similar to the one AE and FN may have encountered (being marooned on a deserted island). I didn't find any. I will keep searching. I am intrigued by how explorers from the 1930's would behave in such a situation.

LTM who loves old books,
Stacy
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #80 on: July 03, 2013, 02:25:22 PM »

This past weekend I spent some time in antique stores searching for books dated early 1900s. I wanted to see if I could find a story that had been written about a scenario similar to the one AE and FN may have encountered (being marooned on a deserted island). I didn't find any. I will keep searching. I am intrigued by how explorers from the 1930's would behave in such a situation.

The classic, of course, is "Robinson Crusoe" - read by school children and very likely by AE as a girl.  Crusoe explored his island for resources and for the best place to live where he would have "a view to the sea" to watch for ships.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 05:24:21 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #81 on: July 03, 2013, 03:44:12 PM »

In the Lambrecht Photo it looks like a "7" was already there only a few days after the last credible signals. Seems like the seven is natural based on that. Maybe shortcut paths made it look like an "A" or the camp itself? On purpose or accidently? Can't wait to see the new photos of that area to get a closer look at what may be paths from it.
Edit: See Big Ren tree relation to the "7"
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« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 03:50:16 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Stacy Galloway

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #82 on: July 03, 2013, 09:11:05 PM »

This past weekend I spent some time in antique stores searching for books dated early 1900s. I wanted to see if I could find a story that had been written about a scenario similar to the one AE and FN may have encountered (being marooned on a deserted island). I didn't find any. I will keep searching. I am intrigued by how explorers from the 1930's would behave in such a situation.

The classic, of course, is "Robinson Crusoe" - read by school children and very likely by AE as a girl.  Crusoe explored his island for resources and for the best place to live where he would have "a view to the sea" to watch for ships.

Perfect example! :) Even as I continue to search out more oldies-but-goodies I may pull out my battered copy of Robinson Crusoe and spend a comfortable evening or two re-reading it :)

LTM who re-reads lots of things,
Stacy
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Gloria Walker Burger

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #83 on: July 03, 2013, 09:24:12 PM »

In a room full of people there will be a lot of theories ...it's one thing to decide what you have found; quite another to decide what you *might* or *should* find...or where!

I'm with you Bill. Truth is stranger than fiction. Not only do we find time and time again that people do things that we think are bizarre, and things we would never do, but how many times have we all done something dumb then later thought what in the world was I thinking? (Like Ric handling the fecal matter found at the Seven Site--sorry, Ric). You can say, "I would never do this", or, "I'm sure I would do that", but in truth until you are actually in that moment you never know. That's why it makes me a bit crazy when I read forum posters saying, "well, 'such and such' did or didn't happen, so therefore AE and FN were never at Gardner Island. And I'm sure that if AE was pounding a coconut against a tree stump to get it open and missed the first few minutes of the sound of the Lambrecht flyover, as many times as many of you say, "why wasn't she just sitting by a brush pile with FN's lighter ready to go", I'm sure she thought it, too...over and over again herself...and was probably from there on ready for the next flyover or ship...which never came.

Just to throw out my thoughts on the matter, I'm with you Stacy, I don't think it is likely (but you never know) that the Seven is a man (or woman)-made A, mostly because the seven was already there in the earlier photos.
Gloria
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Stacy Galloway

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #84 on: July 03, 2013, 10:14:47 PM »

In a room full of people there will be a lot of theories ...it's one thing to decide what you have found; quite another to decide what you *might* or *should* find...or where!

I'm with you Bill. Truth is stranger than fiction. Not only do we find time and time again that people do things that we think are bizarre, and things we would never do, but how many times have we all done something dumb then later thought what in the world was I thinking? (Like Ric handling the fecal matter found at the Seven Site--sorry, Ric). You can say, "I would never do this", or, "I'm sure I would do that", but in truth until you are actually in that moment you never know. That's why it makes me a bit crazy when I read forum posters saying, "well, 'such and such' did or didn't happen, so therefore AE and FN were never at Gardner Island. And I'm sure that if AE was pounding a coconut against a tree stump to get it open and missed the first few minutes of the sound of the Lambrecht flyover, as many times as many of you say, "why wasn't she just sitting by a brush pile with FN's lighter ready to go", I'm sure she thought it, too...over and over again herself...and was probably from there on ready for the next flyover or ship...which never came.
Just to throw out my thoughts on the matter, I'm with you Stacy, I don't think it is likely (but you never know) that the Seven is a man (or woman)-made A, mostly because the seven was already there in the earlier photos.

I, too, think AE just wasn't able to get Lambrecht's attention for some reason. I'm sure she and FN did everything they thought they should do in this situation.

Personally, I think that they thought rescue was a sure thing- at least during the first few days.

If they were able, they would have built signals- some more permanent than others- to draw attention to themselves. If nothing else, they may have thought that the plane itself would draw attention to them.

Neither AE or FN had any idea what the plane looked like from the sky once it washed away during high tide. If the plane wreckage remained near (per stories recounted by the future island inhabitants), then AE and FN may have thought the wreckage itself would draw attention- along with any signs they had built on the island.

It is very difficult to know what anyone would do in this situation. These days we have the Internet, instant communication, and knowledge exchanged from all over the world. Back then countries were more isolated from each other, tropical islands were exotic and far away, and most people had very little experience outside of their own home towns. AE and FN had traveled the world, so they had experienced other cultures but that still doesn't tell us what they would have done on a deserted island.

So, yes, we cannot say "I would never... " or "I can't believe they didn't...", because we just don't know what influenced their decisions to do or not do something.

LTM who decides to decide,
Stacy
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Christine Schulte

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #85 on: July 04, 2013, 09:54:03 AM »

I think it's a very good idea to ask what AE/FNs mindset was.
My dad has a collection of books on explorers and adventurers from late 40s/early50s that I used to read as a girl. I actually think some of these must have been translations of American books because there was lots of stuff about people like Admiral Byrd and Charles Lindbergh and that's also how I came to be aware of Amelia Earhart.  :)

I think all those books (which of course cannot have been read by AE as a girl) basically said the same things about what to do if you get lost: Look for shelter. Find water and look for food. Pile up lots of dry wood so you can start a fire to make sure you get noticed when a ship/plane passes by.

I've always wondered what Ltd. Lambrecht meant with "signs of previous habitation" and "markers of some kind". I imagine he must have seen something rather unspecific because otherwise he'd have been more specific in his report (e.g. "I saw a dilapidated hut but nobody came out waving so I concluded that nobody was there" or "Someone had painted a big S.O.S. on the the shipwreck but there was no one around to rescue"). I think he may have seen piles of wood that AE/FN piled up on the beach to light if they saw a ship/plane. A pile of wood is something that usually doesn't get there accidentially, and it's also a "marker of some kind". However if no one comes out and lights it you might just conclude that whoever piled up the wood wasn't there any more.
That's just a  "could have", thought, of course.
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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2013, 12:37:58 PM »

And I always wondered why Lambrecht, who spoke of "signs of previous habitation" on an uninhabited island, wasn't told to go back and have a second look. Maybe, without the "Norwich City"sitting on the beach, the "signs of previous habitation" would have been the key to find AE and FN alive.
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Duncan Peard

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2013, 05:08:14 PM »

I think re what actions they may have taken; to them their greatest way of reaching rescue would have been the radio and at that time there was a clear and obvious signal to be seen - the Electra sitting on the reef. There may have been no immediate reason to make any other signal as anyone flying over the island would have seen it.

They simply may not have expected the Electra to be washed away or may have assumed a quick rescue would happen.   
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 03:12:16 AM by Duncan Peard »
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Christine Schulte

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2013, 04:45:36 AM »

I wonder about that because of the obvious radio trouble AE/FN had. Lae heard her for the first time four hours after she'd left (I wonder if there's anything to indicate that she heard Lae?). Itasca heard her but apparently AE didn't hear them most of the time. In that kind of situation, it must have been far from clear that Itasca heard the " 157/337" message. "Here, put your ear to it" in Betty's notebook also seems to indicate that FN (possibly, AE too) had doubts about anyone hearing their distress calls. In that case, they may have realized that they couldn't expect anyone to know in which direction they'd been headed and in which region they might have landed. AE doesn't seem to have been too sure about where she was (cf. the "NYC"/possibly "Norwich City" message). In this kind of situation, I wouldn't want to rely on the radio alone. (another "would have"-speculation...)
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Duncan Peard

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Re: Is the Seven an "A"?
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2013, 05:08:49 AM »

I agree, but I think from their point of view the radio would still be their best bet. Visual signs would have been covered with the presence of the Electra, so the radio was just one extra possibility of reaching someone. That would have changed of course when the Electra was lost to the surf. 
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