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Author Topic: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo  (Read 88982 times)

Andrew M McKenna

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2013, 07:54:50 PM »

Whatever the case, the fender on it now is clearly made up of one piece.

Kinda looks like one piece, but I'm not entirely convinced.  How and why would it carry through the structure of the gear fork?

Would be great to have a closer series of photos.

Andrew
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Greg Daspit

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2013, 08:26:27 PM »

Whatever the case, the fender on it now is clearly made up of one piece.
Nice picture.
Zoom in at where the fork intersects the front and back fender. 
Also note the reinforcing plate at attachment edge.
Looks like 2 pieces to me.
The close up pictures I have seen of the fender on AE's Electra look like 2 piece fenders to me.
The Bevington object looks like the fender failed at one attachment point and rotated, IMHO
3971R
 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:31:55 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2013, 08:55:18 PM »

I should have a complete set of digitized Model 10 engineering drawings (all 2000+) in a month or two, but we won't be able to publish them due to copyright issues.  We can, however, use them for research purposes.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2013, 09:57:12 PM »

Well spotted Greg. The fasteners I have circled in red seem to be different to all the others, larger and, they appear to be the ones fixing the parts to something else.
This must be the place
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2013, 10:32:57 PM »

Well spotted Greg. The fasteners I have circled in red seem to be different to all the others, larger and, they appear to be the ones fixing the parts to something else.
Agreed. The larger fasteners seem to line up with the tabs seen on the fork from the Field school photos. There are two on each side of the fork. Each fender part has only two points of connection to the fork (not counting the braces on the larger piece). That stiffener plate seen in the photo Russ posted makes the edge stronger and less likely to tear at the two point loads. The smaller rivets are for the stiffener, the larger fasteners you noted are to the attach the fender to the fork. IMHO
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« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 10:35:39 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #65 on: September 18, 2013, 07:34:07 AM »

In the meantime, here are a couple of close shots - front and rear - of the fender on c/n 1011.  Note the lack of the reinforcing plate that is present on the fender from c/n 1026 that is now on the rebuilt c/n 1015.
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JNev

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2013, 08:09:48 AM »

Here's some useful information provided by Woody to me this morning - straight from the FAA TCDS for the L10 -

Equipment list shows -

Class I - item 14: "Retracting landing gear, electric worm drive 12.5:1 gear and EDC No. 45040 electric motor (100
amp. fuse required)"

Class II - item 47: "Landing gear (Knuckle type) retracting mech. With 12.5:1 gear ratio and EDC No. 45040 electric
motor (140 amp. Fuxe required) (replaces standard worm and sector type)"

There is the terminology for the 'bull gear' arrangement - 'standard worm and sector type'.

TCDS pdf attached for perusal.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:12:04 AM by Jeff Neville »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #67 on: September 18, 2013, 08:37:51 AM »


There is the terminology for the 'bull gear' arrangement - 'standard worm and sector type'.


So the "bull gear" part would be called - what? - the "sector"?
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JNev

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2013, 08:57:36 AM »


There is the terminology for the 'bull gear' arrangement - 'standard worm and sector type'.


So the "bull gear" part would be called - what? - the "sector"?

Yes.

A true 'bull gear' in industry speak belongs more to trucks and tractors and such - it is a 'granny gear' - large and stout for tremendous torque and load capability.  Somehow 'bull gear' emerged in this case, I think, as natural slang for the 'sector' gear - for an aircraft, it is 'large and stout' and handles a fair torque load considering it must not only raise the gear, but extend it against the airstream - and in this unusual design, absorb ground loads (there is no 'knuckle', over-center / articulating link - all you have is that gear to handle the fore and aft bending moments).
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 07:09:46 AM by Jeff Neville »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #69 on: September 18, 2013, 08:58:36 AM »

Here's a short video of a worm gear in action from a vehicle steering box. It gives a rough idea of the principle of the worm gear working and, the effect it has on the sector gear. I had to replace one of these steering boxes in my VW beetle 1302S when I was younger  :'(  very expensive!

http://youtu.be/n5PGsotdA7Y

This must be the place
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #70 on: September 18, 2013, 09:09:46 AM »

Sector gear name derived from the name of a part of a circle as Jeff poined out...

This must be the place
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #71 on: September 18, 2013, 11:12:06 AM »

Three photos from Woody:
LTM,

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« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 05:02:26 AM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #72 on: September 18, 2013, 11:36:50 AM »

Yeah, that last one is Gracie McGuire fitting a piece of metal debris from the Luke Field crash to the gear of her 10E for History Detectives (except she was totally wrong - don't get me started).
Great detail shot of the front fender though.
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Scott Doudrick

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #73 on: September 18, 2013, 02:31:44 PM »

I have done a fair bit of interpreting engineering drawings from the '30s.  From that standpoint, and a general engineering view, I have a few observations.  They are of course only speculation in the end, unfortunately.

Part and drawing number assignment is somewhat specific to an individual company.  However, some generalizations can be made:
1) When something has a part number, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is a single piece-part.  Numbers can be assigned to an assembly which in turn then has its own sub-parts, sub-sub-parts, etc.  A drawing will also have a name.  Each of those have subs which also all have part numbers.  When you get all the way down to piece-parts, drawings will typically have instructions on how to make that part.  That piece-part drawing is what would be sent to a shop for manufacture.
2) When something has a part number, not only can it be made up of multiple parts, it doesn't necessarily have to be delivered as one piece.  The number could refer to a 'kit.'
3) The bigger the company the more anal it is (and really, has to be).  The more people there are, and the more complicated the things they build are, the more that communication has to be very formalized.  This can mean something as mundane as the name of a part could have to go through a management change approval.

So, the more speculative parts.

One piece vs two
-The fender could well have always been multiple pieces but we just can't see the split.  Something like a landing gear fender would be more likely than average to be damaged and need replacement.  So it would/could have been a 'kit' where the pieces needed to replace the fender come together (per #2 above)
-Also, imagine removal and replacement of a fender which has been mangled.  Removal and replacement of a part like the fender could be difficult to do if it were one piece.  You might have to cut away parts to get enough clearance to bring it through the yolk.  Two pieces come apart and back together easily.  I very much suspect that what we are seeing is two implementations of two-piece fenders.

Possible reasons for the change between fender and guard:
-Since the fender clearly did change, they very easily could have been designed by two different engineers.  One called it a guard and the other called it a fender!
-Per #3 above, someone could have messed up and wrote down the wrong word.  It then took from November '34 to January '35 to get the change from one word to another approved!

Cheers,
Scott
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Russ Matthews

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Re: MysteryQuest Landing Gear and Bevington Photo
« Reply #74 on: September 18, 2013, 03:16:00 PM »

Whatever the case, the fender on it now is clearly made up of one piece.
Looks like 2 pieces to me.

Ha!  Clearly I needed to pay closer attention to my own photo  8)
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