The Gallagher Paradox

[Tim Mellon]

Personally, I can look at the body of things found to date and assign some notion of probability of Earhart having been there (subjectively by perusal - YMMV).  But with the intriguing exceptions of the artifact 2-3-V-2 curved plexiglass and artifact 2-2-V-1 'skin' I don't see a lot of hope for proof via airframe, short of finding major wreckage.  I don't think Gallagher was able to get us closer to it simply because it was probably not on the island to be seen or reported credibly at the time.

May I repectfully agree with you, Jeff.

[Don Dollinger]

I've never met a European yet (we're "Europeans" in Pacific parlance) who can climb a coconut tree and opening a nut in such a way as to permit you to drink the contents without a sharp bush knife and the knowledge of how to do it is almost impossible. 

I have seen them harvest many a coconut tree in Panama.  They had a bamboo like pole with a sharpened blade on the end that was about the size of 8-10" circle cut in half with a tail in the middle that stuck into the pole.  The curved area at the top was sharp and they would push it in between the coconuts to release them.  On the real tall trees they have attachments that strap to their legs with spikes in them.  They would position them so that the spikes were on the insides of the legs and climb them similiar to what our polemen do on telephone poles here in the states.  Of course there are also the ones on the ground that have fallen off naturally but then in Panama there are no crabs to compete with. 
We used to buy them out of the cooler of local roadsides stands (they are a great hangover cure) and the proprietor takes a machette and hacks off a chunk about 2-3" in diameter, sticks a straw in it, and your off.
We used to joke about how good the proprietor was at opening coconuts by how many fingers they still had.
Short and long of it.  Getting them would have been extremely difficult, opening them without losing the milk can be done by boring into it by using a knife and a twisting motion but not easily.  Could be what busted the pocket knife apart or at least loosened it up enough where it was more useful sans the handle.

LTM,

Don

[Don Dollinger]

Getting them would have been extremely difficult, opening them without losing the milk can be done by boring into it by using a knife and a twisting motion but not easily.  Could be what busted the pocket knife apart or at least loosened it up enough where it was more useful sans the handle.

Got a coconut the other day and using my trusty Shrader jack knife with a 4" blade bored into the coconut by twisting the blade half way around one way and then the other way and was able to bore a 1/2" hole in the nut in around 5 minutes give or take.  This was with an extremely sharp knife and it was hard on the knife with the force of the blade torqueing one way and then the other, especially when you initially break through and have to continue boring the hole larger (due to the blade getting wider) to get through the meat.  but not nearly as difficult as I would have thought.  Though, I will add you wouldn't be able to do many coconuts before the knife came apart.  If you would've have found empty coconuts at the site I would attribute that to the knife coming apart whether then it being "beat apart". 

LTM,

Don

[Andrew M McKenna]

You can watch Richie, a crew member on the 2007 expedition, open and drink 2 coconuts in less than 30 seconds by going here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8fMqSiLqw

First he cuts off big portions of the husk, then he cuts around the top of the nut and pulls off the lid, so to speak.  Makes it look easy.

Oddly, the youtube video seems to be suffering from some corruption over time.  My memory of this video was much clearer.  Maybe it is my brain that is corrupted....

Going at it with a small knife would be a painful exercise in my mind.

amck

[Bob Lanz]

You can watch Richie, a crew member on the 2007 expedition, open and drink 2 coconuts in less than 30 seconds by going here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8fMqSiLqw

First he cuts off big portions of the husk, then he cuts around the top of the nut and pulls off the lid, so to speak.  Makes it look easy.

Oddly, the youtube video seems to be suffering from some corruption over time.  My memory of this video was much clearer.  Maybe it is my brain that is corrupted....

Going at it with a small knife would be a painful exercise in my mind.

amck

Andrew, you can only do that with young coconuts.  When they ripen, the water is gone and there is no reason to open them that way.  On the ripe ones we get at the store, I just take em out to the garage and cut them in half with my bandsaw.  Ten seconds max.  ;D

[Ric Gillespie]

On the ripe ones we get at the store, I just take em out to the garage and cut them in half with my bandsaw.  Ten seconds max.  ;D

And ripe ones with no water are of no use to a thirsty castaway.

[Bob Lanz]

On the ripe ones we get at the store, I just take em out to the garage and cut them in half with my bandsaw.  Ten seconds max.  ;D

And ripe ones with no water are of no use to a thirsty castaway.

Touche' Mon Capitaine.  ;D

[C.W. Herndon]

Not unless you had some prior knowledge of that very important little fact. ::)

[Bob Lanz]

But you won't know that until you've nearly burst your knife opening one!

That may be true for a castaway who never opened one however there is a way to tell the difference Chris.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8634815_tell-coconut-ripe.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_8168028_tell-coconuts-ripe-tree.html

[Bob Lanz]

This guy didn't break his kitchen paring knife opening the coconut to drain the water.

http://www.ehow.com/video_2335009_how-open-coconut.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_2335010_draining-coconut.html
               
http://www.ehow.com/video_2335012_removing-coconut-meat-from-shell.html?pid=1&wa_vrid=27aec41e-65cc-42ed-96c9-f3df27469ac9&cp=1&wa_vlsrc=continuous

[C.W. Herndon]

Thanks Bob. That's really good to know stuff about coconuts. Learn something new everyday if you just pay attention. :D

[Ric Gillespie]

Wasn't that trip in July of 2007?  Is there an abundance of young coconuts that time of year (or does 'season' even occur that near the equator)? 

Yes, it was July 2007 but cocos grow year 'round.  No real seasons.

Seems like fair odds they might have found some young coconuts in 1937.

I agree, if they could recognize young coconuts, and find enough of them on the ground, and figure out how to get into them, and not get raging diarrhea from drinking more than a couple of them. Maybe they got some benefit form the cocos.  Maybe not. How would we ever know?  What difference does it make?

Seeing Richie open that thing with that big knife like that gives me the willies, ya'll being so far from an emergency room and all that...  :P

[Don Dollinger]

What difference then would raging diarrhea, etc. make, or not?

Coconut water is the clear liquid found inside immature coconuts. As the coconut matures, the water is replaced by coconut meat.
  Coconut water is sometimes referred to as green coconut water because the immature coconuts are green in color.
  Coconut water is different than coconut milk. Coconut milk is produced from an emulsion of the grated meat of a mature coconut.
  Coconut water is commonly used as a beverage and as a solution for treating dehydration related to diarrhea or exercise. It is also tried for high blood pressure.
  Coconut water is rich in carbohydrates and electrolytes such as potassium, sodium, and magnesium. Because of this electrolyte composition, there is a lot of interest in using coconut water to treat and prevent dehydration. But some experts suggest that the electrolyte composition in coconut water is not adequate to be used as a rehydration solution.

Found here:  http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1261-COCONUT%20WATER.aspx?activeIngredientId=1261&activeIngredientName=COCONUT%20WATER

Drank alot of that stuff in South America and it never caused me any problems, it is very refreshing when it is hot as #$%% out.  But then I also drank the water in Mexico without getting Montezuma's Revenge so googled the effects to see if it was just me.  WebMD states it is actually used to treat dehydration caused by diarrhea. 

They would not use something that causes diarrhea to treat dehydration caused by diarrhea.  Unless I'm missing something.  Does not look like the castaway found the coconuts so it is probably a moot point, but...

LTM,

Don

LTM,

Don

[George Pachulski]

Hi ,  one possibility

As I understand the Paradox , the plane debris was not present at first when Gallagher was looking into the bones question but seem to have shown up later.

One thought I had is that may be the plane was there hidden under the water but its structure had not been compromized to any extent until after a few years. Then the cabin and rigging may have crumbled with the resulting debris from this being ejected back to the surface and onto the beaches and nearby waterfront.

This would have resulted in an effect that the debris that was there during Gallagher's time, but was not evident till later....

He was not looking for a downed plane as mentioned since it was "known" the plane had sunk at sea....

[Ric Gillespie]

One thought I had is that may be the plane was there hidden under the water but its structure had not been compromized to any extent until after a few years. Then the cabin and rigging may have crumbled with the resulting debris from this being ejected back to the surface and onto the beaches and nearby waterfront.

This would have resulted in an effect that the debris that was there during Gallagher's time, but was not evident till later....

He was not looking for a downed plane as mentioned since it was "known" the plane had sunk at sea....

There is actually a great deal of evidence to support that possibility and it's exactly the hypothesis I'll be presenting in a paper in the forthcoming TIGHAR Tracks Journal.