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Author Topic: Wire & Rope entire.mov  (Read 239030 times)

JNev

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2012, 01:13:52 PM »

Glad the 'squiggley' is cleared up - makes perfect sense.

So much for congealed strut fluid.  :P
- Jeff Neville

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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2012, 01:28:50 PM »

so much for my brake hose. Damn
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2012, 05:08:55 PM »

Yeah, but the brake hose idea was pretty good, and under different circumstances might have been correct.
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John Balderston

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2012, 04:02:11 PM »

A fresh observation from the newly-provided "Wire & Rope entire" footage (and I think more in line with the accepted visual scale  :)).  At 13:36:51, frame 19, left side of the image, we see what appears to be man-made debris.  Upon closer observation the debris seems to resemble the structure from the inboard side of the right engine mount.  Comparison of the debris and the inboard right engine mount attached.
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JNev

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2012, 07:44:45 AM »

A fresh observation from the newly-provided "Wire & Rope entire" footage (and I think more in line with the accepted visual scale  :)).  At 13:36:51, frame 19, left side of the image, we see what appears to be man-made debris.  Upon closer observation the debris seems to resemble the structure from the inboard side of the right engine mount.  Comparison of the debris and the inboard right engine mount attached.

John,

Doesn't it strike you as odd that suddenly, previoius interpretations having failed due to scale realizations, you now have 'new' targets of essentially the same kinds of things as before, only now among different formations after being 'adjusted' for a better understood scale?  ???

That suggests to me what we've been advised of before - that our mind's eye tends to 'see' desired 'things' in such shapes at times.  :P  It's very nearly as if there is always Electra wreckage to be seen in the world's natural environment - if only we are willing to spot it.

Just a thought... IMHO, of course.

---

That is a nice close-up of an Electra wing / engine mount truss arrangement - and the relative close-up of that chord-strap is of interest to me. 

TIGHAR holds an aircraft artifact found at Niku that is strikingly similar in make-up, although perhaps with counter-bored holes for flush rivets.  I have not found the item among the artifacts listed here from Niku, but Irv Donald's picture from the D.C. Earhart Symposium displays this rather thick piece that could have come from such a location, given the heavy 'strap' I can see in this shot.  Might be interesting to follow that up.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 08:40:30 AM by J. Nevill »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2012, 08:16:32 AM »

All the more reason to have brought some of it home.
Tom
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2012, 12:44:29 PM »

All the more reason to have brought some of it home.
Tom

If all of you wandering around the bottom in the VI HD video in February had stuck to your guns, you too might have found these things. As it was, you did find things like the wheel and squiggle, but for some reason were talked out of believing they represented man-made articles, because of "scale". At the very least, you might have noticed that the first 33 seconds of the video showed a time span later than the last 90-some seconds, and could have requested seeing the entire eight minutes.

I repeat, again, we have just scratched the surface of this debris field. It is littered with man-made objects. But none of them could have beeen brought home by the KOK because at the time of the Niku VII expedition no-one recognized the existance of this debris field as a possibility, and therefore no effort was made to find it again and explore it further. That all changed with John Balderston's post of August 22 (#1567). I appreciate Richie Conroy weighing in again in a new spirit of discovery.
Tim
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 12:46:22 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2012, 12:47:43 PM »

Heres another anomaly that needs clearing up as well. The 'rope' in the 2010 video has a strange solid black fitting at its end, first image. The problem is that how do you splice a rope, middle image, to a metal fitting that doesn't have a loop for the rope to thread through? You can do it if the 'rope' wasn't rope but metal cable, as in the last image. Which leads onto the other length of 'rope' in the full length 2010 video, which also ends in a very un-rope like fashion.
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2012, 12:52:01 PM »

Thats the first time i've sen the 'eye' at the end of the rope object.

Also black 'squigle' type material around/near it.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2012, 12:58:10 PM »

The other length of 'rope' in the full length 2010 video, which also ends in a very un-rope like fashion...
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2012, 01:13:59 PM »

Tim---
Several of us EARLY on in the still pics of the video that Richie and Jeff Victor were using, were saying that there was 'possible' aircraft wreckage. A certain member even called Ric to have him look at the 'gear with the squiggley'. So it appears that there may be some aircraft wreckage in a debris frield that was videoed in 2010. We were told the coordinates were not available due to some technical malfunction with the system. So, even though it appeared the debris field existed, its location wasnt known.
Now, 2 years later, you are saying that "none of them could have beeen brought home by the KOK because at the time of the Niku VII expedition no-one recognized the existance of this debris field as a possibility, and therefore no effort was made to find it again and explore it further."
Sir I respectfully disagree with you. Richie, Jeff, and others 'spotted' multiple targets, and I would think that with their locations being near each other, that would constitute a 'debris field.' This WAS recognized, not only by members here, but surely others as well. It was discussed in DC, it was the only underwater video we had of the location.
So---it was recognized, but yes, apparently no effort was made to find it again. Well, maybe so, with the initial AUV, and side scan mapping of the KOK. But it wasnt found, so other AUV/ROV searches were employed. You were there, and can speak better than the rest of us.
I assume that you were familiar with the still pics from the 2010 video, before you sailed. So I would also assume, as a sponsor, you may have been able to 'suggest'  looking at possible locations of the 2010 video targets, which I assume was attempted. Guessing that things in the 2010 video and 2012 video dont match up. But saying no one recognized the existance of a debris field, IMHO contradics the efforts of many members, old and new.
Tom
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JNev

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2012, 01:28:01 PM »

All the more reason to have brought some of it home.
Tom

If all of you wandering around the bottom in the VI HD video in February had stuck to your guns, you too might have found these things. As it was, you did find things like the wheel and squiggle, but for some reason were talked out of believing they represented man-made articles, because of "scale". At the very least, you might have noticed that the first 33 seconds of the video showed a time span later than the last 90-some seconds, and could have requested seeing the entire eight minutes.

I repeat, again, we have just scratched the surface of this debris field. It is littered with man-made objects. But none of them could have beeen brought home by the KOK because at the time of the Niku VII expedition no-one recognized the existance of this debris field as a possibility, and therefore no effort was made to find it again and explore it further. That all changed with John Balderston's post of August 22 (#1567). I appreciate Richie Conroy weighing in again in a new spirit of discovery.

I'm happy for your confidence, Tim - but WHAT 'things' are we talking about? 

I too have a wonderful spirit of discovery, and I'd love for there to be parts there - but I do not see anything so definitive in these frames.  Would you launch a mission over what you're seeing?  If so you have far more confidence or better eyesight than me.

Now if you want to launch a deeper, wider and more able mission to explore the whole area (necessary IMO if you are to have a chance of solving this mystery) then I'm all over it: may or may not be there, but if it is that's the best shot you'll have in my view.  Go kick the dust off these 'items' to heart's content, and if you're wrong about them continue into the abyss and look-man-look.

So, I respect your opinion - but that's all it is: no one is demonstrating that we absolutely have 'wreckage' here so far as I can tell.  That's my opinion.
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2012, 02:23:30 PM »

All the more reason to have brought some of it home.
Tom

If all of you wandering around the bottom in the VI HD video in February had stuck to your guns, you too might have found these things. As it was, you did find things like the wheel and squiggle, but for some reason were talked out of believing they represented man-made articles, because of "scale". At the very least, you might have noticed that the first 33 seconds of the video showed a time span later than the last 90-some seconds, and could have requested seeing the entire eight minutes.

I repeat, again, we have just scratched the surface of this debris field. It is littered with man-made objects. But none of them could have beeen brought home by the KOK because at the time of the Niku VII expedition no-one recognized the existance of this debris field as a possibility, and therefore no effort was made to find it again and explore it further. That all changed with John Balderston's post of August 22 (#1567). I appreciate Richie Conroy weighing in again in a new spirit of discovery.

Somehow 'scale' seems vital - and Ric was able to help us understand the scope of the image we were seeing.

The 'squiggly' was defnitively identified as man-made as Ric relates in here somewhere - it was found to be the same as some shipboard gasket material common to marine use, perhaps packing material for a shaft as described.

As to only having scratched the surface - I wholly agree: not only with regard to this limited area, which appears to hold limited promise to me so far, but as to the region where the Electra might lie today.  Hate to see it, but I think you need a bigger boat and more groceries for a longer stay and more toys to rove around the bottom with if you want success.  No guarantees at best, of course, but always that chance of discovery, in the right spirit, of course.
- Jeff Neville

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Tim Collins

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2012, 02:31:08 PM »

Re rope etc.: What is known of the settler's fishing activities off the reef?
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Wire & Rope entire.mov
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2012, 02:46:53 PM »

Re rope etc.: What is known of the settler's fishing activities off the reef?

Don't know myself, probably modest is my guess.  The kind of 'tackle' I see could have come from any number of more substantial visiting vessels over many years though.  A lot of those guys drag huge tackle with many small lines, etc. and such stuff is constantly lost or cut loose.

Its been documented that settlers were seen to be using 'aircraft' cables to fish with on Niku.

There has also been much discussion on drift net fishing etc..
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