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Author Topic: 2-2-V-1 - patch?  (Read 1125812 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #375 on: August 27, 2014, 11:24:54 AM »

Curious as to what additional data TIGHAR needs/hopes to see from 2-2-V-1 to reach the conclusion that the artifact did indeed (or at least has the highest percentage of probability) come from the Electra.

We want to see if we can confirm the presence of rivet lines at positions 2 and 4.  We also want to know if anything more can be learned through hyperspectral imaging.
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Dan Swift

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #376 on: August 28, 2014, 06:33:18 AM »

"If the artifact is not the Miami Patch it is a random piece of airplane wreckage from some unknown wreck of an aircraft type we have not been able to identify, that just happened to wash up on this island and just happens to have all the characteristics that make us suspect it is the Miami Patch."

That's a whole lot of "if's", "random's", "some unknown's", and "just happened's" that ALL had to come together for it NOT to be 'THE' patch! 
Whew!!  Makes me dizzy!
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« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 06:35:08 AM by Dan Swift »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #377 on: August 28, 2014, 07:02:32 AM »

That's a whole lot of "if's", "random's", "some unknown's", and "just happened's" that ALL had to come together for it NOT to be 'THE' patch! 
Whew!!  Makes me dizzy!

Oh, and the island this random piece of wreckage washed up on just happens to be the same island where the Pan Am radio bearings cross, where Lambrecht saw signs of recent habitation, where the Bevington Object appears in an October 1937 photo, where a castaway's bones were found in 1940, where later inhabitants told of a "downed plane" that was there when the first colonists arrived, where TIGHAR has found a variety of artifacts that speak of an American woman of the 1930s,  ..... shall I go on?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2014, 07:12:38 AM by Ric Gillespie »
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Dan Swift

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #378 on: August 28, 2014, 07:13:48 AM »


Oh, and the island this random piece of wreckage washed up on just happens to be the same island where the Pan Am radio bearings cross, where Lambrecht saw signs of recent habitation, where the Bevington Object appears in an October 1937 photo, where a castaway's bones were found in 1940, where later inhabitants told of a "downed plane" that was there when the first colonists arrived, where TIGHAR has found a variety of artifacts that speak of an American woman of the 1930s,  ..... shall iI go on?
[/quote]

OK!!  I give up!!  It's from the Electra!  It has to be!  LOL! 
And YES....please "go on"...and on...and on...! 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #379 on: August 28, 2014, 07:29:06 AM »

OK!!  I give up!!  It's from the Electra!  It has to be!  LOL! 
And YES....please "go on"...and on...and on...!

Let's not jump to conclusions. As our friends at the National Air & Space Museum are fond of saying, "TIGHAR has found nothing that can be directly linked to Earhart." 
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JNev

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #380 on: August 28, 2014, 08:46:30 AM »

True, but I still believe it is a very odd piece of wreckage to have turned up at that place as it somehow did.

Search on - glad Glickman is pouring over it all.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #381 on: August 28, 2014, 09:34:48 AM »

Very true, Mr. Neville, sir, but ... NASM won't be satisfied until TIGHAR finds a piece of our favorite Electra that has a uniquely identifiable serial number or other marking that absolutely and without the possibilty of a single question ties it to Earhart and Noonan.

Those of us who are more reasonable prefer to consider the totality of all of the evidence, and where that leads.

LTM, who has never seen a total eclipse,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Dan Swift

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #382 on: August 28, 2014, 12:10:43 PM »


Let's not jump to conclusions. As our friends at the National Air & Space Museum are fond of saying, "TIGHAR has found nothing that can be directly linked to Earhart."
[/quote]

OK...if you consider 25+ years of research and new developments every year "jumping".   Yep, for NASM it will have to be a matching serial number, her watch, his watch, or maybe even a identifiable tooth...with them. 
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Tim Collins

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #383 on: August 29, 2014, 06:38:00 AM »

Very true, Mr. Neville, sir, but ... NASM won't be satisfied until TIGHAR finds a piece of our favorite Electra that has a uniquely identifiable serial number or other marking that absolutely and without the possibilty of a single question ties it to Earhart and Noonan.

Those of us who are more reasonable prefer to consider the totality of all of the evidence, and where that leads.

LTM, who has never seen a total eclipse,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

Unless you can get the right person to sign off on the project. Remember Ballard and his search for PT109? I don't think he ever got any push back on his "discovery" of that. 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #384 on: August 29, 2014, 07:01:44 AM »

Remember Ballard and his search for PT109? I don't think he ever got any push back on his "discovery" of that.

And most people still credit him with finding the Titanic.  Attached is a little-known "open letter" to Ballard from Commander Paul-Henri Nargeolet
Expedition Co-Leader, 1987, 1993, 1994, 1996 and 1998 Titanic Research and Recovery Expeditions.  I have no information as to the accuracy of Commander Nargeolet's allegations but I do know that Ballard's reputation in much of the ocean science community is quite different from his public persona. (The same was true of Earhart and the aviation community.)

The public's perception of historical events and personalities is shaped by the media.
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Dan Swift

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #385 on: August 29, 2014, 07:45:56 AM »

You know what, one can find or invent something negative regarding anyone...especially in command.  All these things are team efforts.  I do believe that Mr. Ballard was extremely responsible for getting the thousands of enemy soldiers, or even hundreds, the why should he get any credit for his amazing contribution to the WWII effort?  What ever Mr. Ballard's reasons were for not reacting to certain information only he can tell us. 

I do know there are three sides to every story.  One side's version, the other side's version, and the truth.  Ballard was still the one that made it happen and just because someone else may have pulled the trigger, or was at the helm at the time, or sleeping at that particular moment,  matters not to me.   But, that is just my opinion. 
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Tim Collins

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #386 on: August 29, 2014, 09:52:57 AM »

I do believe that Mr. Ballard was extremely responsible for getting the thousands of enemy soldiers, or even hundreds, the why should he get any credit for his amazing contribution to the WWII effort?  ...

Huh? Did I miss something? Apparently. Anyway, back to my preparations for International Bacon Day (tomorrow)...
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #387 on: August 29, 2014, 09:54:18 AM »

Anyway, back to my preparations for International Bacon Day (tomorrow)...

NOW you tell me....
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JNev

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #388 on: August 29, 2014, 11:18:33 AM »

Nargeolet's letter seems to be many things -

I see things there that are 'fair game' and probably easily backed by facts from sources he cites; I also see a taking to task of Ballard for over-reaching - even as I do think Ballard deserves much credit for heading what became the first truly successful effort at definitively finding the wreck.  And some of it may be a bit of an over-reach by Nargeolet for entirely not unpredictable human reasons - Ballard got tons of press and became a household name - 'Nargeolet', et al?

For that matter, in theory, Ric could happen to be sleeping even as a submersible stumbles onto the distinctive wreckage of NR16020 one day - does that mean his role as a team leader / executive director of an expedition that finally definitively found the holy grail of aviation should be diminished?  That would be a low-shot IMO.

On the other hand, how Ballard has often presented his views and himself have frequently left much to be desired, IMO, in terms of recognizing big TEAM, LITTLE me, which is as it should be in a healthier, honest situation, also IMHO.  Nargeolet seems to rightly call Ballard's hand for some unwarranted criticisms, as well - and what he shares of destructive currents at the bottom of the sea at that locale is both enlightening and convincing as to the writer's own superior first-hand knowledge of the site.  That should be humbling to Ballard: he does not seem to have had the experience that Nargeolet has accumulated, not in the least.

All good lessons to apply by TIGHAR as a team, of course.  One hopes the attitude here is healthier, no doubt.  In my experience I believe it is - having seen others and even myself credited at times with positive ideas along the way.  That feels pretty good - not for the personal credit so much, but more for how TIGHAR operates as a whole.

Just one word to Ric - "don't sleep at Niku"  ;)
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 11:20:27 AM by Jeffrey Neville »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #389 on: August 29, 2014, 12:05:25 PM »

Just one word to Ric - "don't sleep at Niku"  ;)

Every time I do, somebody takes a picture of me.  I could fill an album of photos of me sleeping at Niku.  When I'm awake all I do is shout and point anyway.
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