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[Jeff Victor Hayden]

MARS IS FOUND IN SEAFLOOR SURVEY AROUND JAPANESE MINI-SUBMARINE NOAA and Partners Survey "Flying Boat" Crash Sites.
(Not the red planet)

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2004/s2354.htm


 Image courtesy of NOAA/HURL

[Tim Mellon]

I dream of coming upon the Electra wreckage like that.

Dream to your heart's content, Ric.

The fact is that you have already identified evidence of the Electra. Remember this item you tagged in 2012 ("What is this object?")? It is, I believe, a pushrod to a valve in a Wasp cylinder. There are plenty more examples in the vicinity (see second attachment).

NR16020 survives in thousands of pieces. Most of them are scattered in a very small area. Get used to it, my friend.

[Jerry Germann]

Hi Tim,
               In your opinion, what is the likelyhood of the ( detached) external engine parts, ( pushrod and tube) to become closely lined up with the believed to be exposed internal parts, (valve and spring),... considering the force it would require to demolish the cylinder jug to resemble your cutaway picture? 

[Ric Gillespie]

The fact is that you have already identified evidence of the Electra.

No I haven't.  I expressed curiosity about a curiously shaped object.  I did not identify anything.

It is, I believe, a pushrod to a valve in a Wasp cylinder. There are plenty more examples in the vicinity (see second attachment).

I think it's probably a spine from some form of marine growth. I agree that there are plenty more in the vicinity.

NR16020 survives in thousands of pieces. Most of them are scattered in a very small area. Get used to it, my friend.

I think it is entirely possible that only some heavy components of the aircraft have survived underwater in the dynamic reef environment. I don't doubt that they are hard to find because I'm quite sure we haven't found any yet.  And BTW, friends don't sue friends.

[Tim Mellon]

Oh, what sort of marine growth did you have in mind? Certainly not the backbone of a red snapper, would you think? (Although there does appear one a minute later in the video).

And BTW, friends don't sue friends.

You seem to take it personally.  Please don't.

[Monty Fowler]

The HURL team seems to be grindingly methodical, which is why they find things. Not unlike TIGHAR. They also seem to be commendably cautious in making sure that what they think they see is actually what they do see. Again, not unlike TIGHAR.

LTM, who thinks Niku VIII is going to be the one,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER

[Ric Gillespie]

You seem to take it personally.  Please don't.

You name me as an individual in the suit and the original complaint included a RICO charge that could have put me in jail - and you say "don't take it personally".  Amazing.

[Tim Mellon]

It is, I believe, a pushrod to a valve in a Wasp cylinder. There are plenty more examples in the vicinity (see second attachment).

I think it's probably a spine from some form of marine growth. I agree that there are plenty more in the vicinity.

If these "marine growths" are so ubiquitous, and not just confined to the Site #1, perhaps you would be so kind as to find one, or several, on the "Dive 14" video and reference the time-stamp.

[Jerry Germann]

Tim,
        You state....   " It is , I believe ,a pushrod to a valve in a wasp cylinder"  If this piece were a mechanical part , I would be more inclined to believe it to be the pushrod tube , instead of the pushrod itself...however; on none of the engines I have researched, does it appear that the pushrod and or pushrod tubes taper the way this object seems to do, rather they are of consistent diameter from top to bottom .....I agree with Ric , it tapers like a spine or root.

[Tim Mellon]

Jerry, good observation.

But does it taper, or is it just flattened and twisted in order to accommodate the hole in the tappet that rides up and down on the cam?

Also, would you allow that 76 years under salt water at 985 feet might allow for some degradation in the dimensions of a metal component?

[Jerry Germann]

Tim,
         I don't have access to high res photos, so it is difficult for me to see much fine detail.  I don't really understand your statement regarding the pushrod tube having to be twisted , flattened, or bent to align with the tappet hole. If you have a bent pushrod and /or pushrod housing tube you have problems....most likely a sticky or stuck exhaust valve. Looking at the wasp radial, the pushrods/housings appear to be at a slant from the crankcase to the cylinder jug,.... ( only natural with this engine design), accually they are relatively straight ( as the hands of a clock pointing to whatever time it may be) ...in addition the ball on the ends of the pushrod could accomodate for any slight angle, with no bending of the rod or it's housing. I am unfamiliar as to the material this pushrod housing is made from, however I can't imagine it would be a very heavy guage, thus one might expect bending and flattening,and twisting, considering the force required to separate it from it's position (crankcase to cylinder jug). And yes, degradation.
       Viewing your second attachment, You note what you believe to be housing, next to the valve, ....oh, if there were only cylinder cooling fins visible on that chunk of whatever it is.

[Tim Mellon]

       Viewing your second attachment, You note what you believe to be housing, next to the valve, ....oh, if there were only cylinder cooling fins visible on that chunk of whatever it is.

Jerry, you must have whispered into Santa's ear.

Upon further examination of that second attachment, I believe there to be cooling fins apparent in the upper left hand corner, as shown in the enlargement attached to this post, within the green rectangle. Also, if I am not mistaken, there appears to be an intact valve casing just above those fins, with its own pushrod casing descending to the right in a "south-southeasterly" direction. Also, for comparison, a picture of an actual Wasp valve casing.

In the minutes before this frame, there are many other appearances of largely intact valve casings, some with pushrods still attached and some not. I shall await receiving the High Definition footage of this part of the dive, however, before  commenting further. The 16 minute HD run that I already have ends just  before the ROV takes its trip downhill.

[JNev]

       Viewing your second attachment, You note what you believe to be housing, next to the valve, ....oh, if there were only cylinder cooling fins visible on that chunk of whatever it is.

Jerry, you must have whispered into Santa's ear.

Upon further examination of that second attachment, I believe there to be cooling fins apparent in the upper left hand corner, as shown in the enlargement attached to this post, within the green rectangle. Also, if I am not mistaken, there appears to be an intact valve casing just above those fins, with its own pushrod casing descending to the right in a "south-southeasterly" direction. Also, for comparison, a picture of an actual Wasp valve casing.

In the minutes before this frame, there are many other appearances of largely intact valve casings, some with pushrods still attached and some not. I shall await receiving the High Definition footage of this part of the dive, however, before  commenting further. The 16 minute HD run that I already have ends just  before the ROV takes its trip downhill.

Peeked in for a breath of fresh air... and got a whiff of the tomb -

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!  It ain't in the photos guys... if so, trust me - Ric would've been dancing a jig and releasing a great book and rolling in movie rights, etc., etc. by now...

Still got to go FIND it (choose yer own search if this one don't suit ye) -

No offense, but -

You seem to take it personally.  Please don't.

You name me as an individual in the suit and the original complaint included a RICO charge that could have put me in jail - and you say "don't take it personally".  Amazing.

It's been out of mind until this fresh reminder - y'know there's something to that, Tim - not to pry, I mean I guess it's public knowledge anyway...

But to quote a famous individual who went from brawler to awed spectator in my time, "can't we just all be friends?"

Agree, disagree - but would you have really felt it to be impersonal if you'd seen Ric carted off to the federal pen for a RICO violation???  Sorry, but just had to ask that.

[Tim Mellon]

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!  It ain't in the photos guys... if so, trust me - Ric would've been dancing a jig and releasing a great book and rolling in movie rights, etc., etc. by now...

Unfortunately, Jeff, that train has already left the station.

[Jerry Germann]

Jeff,
          I haven't been swayed either way yet, however; I do think it fair to ourselves and others to keep an open mind.
Mr Mellon believes in what he sees, others likewise, Niku VIII may well resolve many issues.

Tim,
        Without higher quality images, I am unable to see the items or the details you decribe. I do think,.... if one were to find a weak point in the cylinder jug ,  it might be the rocker arm/valve body/ intake port area. Where in relationship to the anomoly is site #1?