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Author Topic: Niku VIII Plan  (Read 158681 times)

Russ Matthews

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #120 on: January 10, 2014, 11:37:14 AM »

Mid-air collision [with a P-39]?

Nicely done, Jeff.

And by following the link about the P-39 on Justin Taylin's "Pacific Wrecks" site, we find it states BOTH aircraft fell into the sea .. so the troublesome, mysterious 6 spoked nose wheel is not from a B-26 after all!

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Monty Fowler

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #121 on: January 10, 2014, 01:17:25 PM »

[ .. so the troublesome, mysterious 6 spoked nose wheel is not from a B-26 after all!

Well, maybe. The P-39 had a double-fork nose wheel attachment point. Although there is no scale in the diving video, that nose gear still - to me - looks heftier and seems to be a better fit for a B-25, which had a single-fork nosewheel attachment point, as indicated in the video.

But yes - well done on the accident report!

LTM, who tries not to speak with a forked tongue,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Russ Matthews

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2014, 02:00:47 PM »

Jeff wins.  I somehow totally missed his earlier illustrated post about 6 spoked Marauder wheels.  The gear wreckage is consistent with the reported type and he's found documented evidence of a wartime B-26 lost at those exact same coordinates.  There is no mystery here.   
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 02:06:03 PM by Russ Matthews »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2014, 02:18:33 PM »

As Monty noted the wreckage has come apart quite spectacularly so maybe the mid-air collision played a part in that. I haven't found any info on carrier trials for the B-26 yet...

Initially the Marauder was one of the candidates for the Doolittle raid but was rejected due to
"questionable takeoff characteristics from a carrier deck" which begs the question, did they try a few tests?

The closest was the B-26 Marauder 'Susie-Q' having a go at the Akagi...

"The last of the US Navy TBF torpedo bombers had barely cleared the runway, when Captain Collins led his four B-26 Marauders into the air. There had been no plan for a coordinated attack. Captain Collins only knew that their primary target would be Japanese carriers at the centre of a protective screen of warships and Zero fighters. 
First Lieutenant Muri's first impression of the Japanese carrier fleet was the sighting of wisps of smoke on the horizon, and then he was over the destroyer screen and saw the vast array of the First Carrier Striking Force spread across the sea. This was certainly not going to be the easy mission that he had been expecting, and he reached for a cigarette in the can at his feet. He was still fumbling with a match to light it when the Zeros struck viciously at the small formation of Army bombers.
Jim Muri did his best to follow closely as Captain Collins swerved his bomber, first to the left and then to the right, looking for the clearest line of approach to one of the leading carriers. With his concentration focussed on the movements of his commander's B-26, Muri had no time to keep an eye on the B-26 bombers piloted by 1st Lieutenant Herbert C. Mayes and 1st Lieutenant William S. Watson on his left and right wings respectively. Facing a veritable storm of anti-aircraft fire from the Japanese warships, Collins alternately climbed and dropped his B-26 to throw off the aim of the gunners. Muri was still following closely as Collins dived close to sea level in an attempt to frustrate the swarming Zeros. Master story teller Walter Lord (see note below) vividly evokes the situation as Jim Muri piloted his B-26 into the boiling cauldron that was the First Carrier Striking Force:
"Now they were in the middle of the formation; as Muri's co-pilot Lieutenant Pete Moore glanced quickly around, every ship seemed a solid sheet of gunfire. The Japanese gunners would shoot at the water to see where the bullets hit. Using the splashes as tracers, they would "walk" their fire right into the B-26s.
"But they came on anyhow. Collins finally released at 800 yards and zoomed away to the right. Muri came hard behind, with the Zeros flying right into their own fleet's line of fire in a desperate effort to stop him. Bullets smashed the Plexiglas turret; a ricochet clipped Sergeant Gogoj's forehead. Muri shouted to Moore to release the torpedo. But the improvised switch was something that Rube Goldberg might have invented - a trigger, a cable, a plug with innumerable prongs. Moore frantically squeezed the trigger, twisted the plug, still couldn't tell whether the torpedo was gone. "Is it away?" Muri kept shouting. "How the hell do I know?" Moore answered."
They would find out later that the torpedo had indeed been released; but now looming in front of them was the vast bulk of the carrier at which they had been aiming. They would find out later that this carrier  was none other than Vice Admiral Nagumo's own flagship Akagi. Walter Lord continues:
"Banking hard, Muri flew straight down the middle of the flight deck. His bombardier Lieutenant Russ Johnson grabbed the nose gun and strafed in all directions. They had a brief, vivid glimpse of white-clad sailors scattering for cover."
As he flew at low level down the length of the great carrier's flight deck, two things impressed themselves very clearly on Jim Muri's memory. First, was the large Japanese battle flag streaming from the mast. The second was the sudden cessation of heavy anti-aircraft fire produced by the need for the Japanese gunners to avoid hitting their own ship."



This must be the place
 
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Steve Lyle Gunderson

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #124 on: January 11, 2014, 10:36:27 AM »

Jeff wins.  I somehow totally missed his earlier illustrated post about 6 spoked Marauder wheels.  The gear wreckage is consistent with the reported type and he's found documented evidence of a wartime B-26 lost at those exact same coordinates.  There is no mystery here.   

Just for reference/comparison I thought I would include these pictures of a B-25 & a Jimmy Doolittle stand in.
This is from the "Pacific Aircraft Museum, Pearl Harbor"  Ford Island, HI.

Steve G
#3911R
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #125 on: January 11, 2014, 11:05:12 AM »

Great pictures Steve, the plane has been kept in remarkably good condition, top marks for that. A final observation on the wrecks we have discussed. If you see divers in the photos/videos then it's not really a like for like comparison to anything stuck to the side of the Gardner seamount. It's like comparing a walk up mount Everest with a walk in the park, IMHO of course.


This must be the place
 
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Steve Lyle Gunderson

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #126 on: January 11, 2014, 12:16:36 PM »

Great pictures Steve, the plane has been kept in remarkably good condition, top marks for that. A final observation on the wrecks we have discussed. If you see divers in the photos/videos then it's not really a like for like comparison to anything stuck to the side of the Gardner seamount. It's like comparing a walk up mount Everest with a walk in the park, IMHO of course.


After I posted the 2 pictures I found a 3rd one with the tail number,
Steve G
#3911R
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #127 on: January 12, 2014, 12:41:47 PM »

Very informative Bulletin on the underwater search part of Niku VIII.
3971R
 
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JNev

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #128 on: January 12, 2014, 05:30:26 PM »

Great bulletin, very informative and exciting stuff.  As a younger man I'd of been chomping at the bit to get a chance to ride in one of those, not now - the confined space wouldn't be as easy for me to take for hours on end I'm afraid.  Hats off to those who will do that.
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #129 on: January 12, 2014, 05:42:45 PM »

Hats off to those who will do that.

On each dive we'll have Terry or one of his people flying the sub, a trained TIGHAR observer, and a Sponsor Team Member.
To fund the expedition we need to find major corporate sponsorship or find four people who will pay $500,000 each for the privilege of spending 6 to 8 hours a day in that capsule.  People routinely pay more than that for manufactured "adventure" experiences.  This is a chance to do something genuine and possibly historic.  We just need to connect with the right people.
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JNev

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #130 on: January 12, 2014, 05:52:25 PM »

That's about as close to a moon shot as most able donors will be able to find in this world, what a ride.
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2014, 12:29:53 PM »

June 6, 2014 press release about expanded plans for Niku VIII.
LTM,

Bruce
TIGHAR #3123R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #132 on: June 07, 2014, 01:11:52 PM »

June 6, 2014 press release about expanded plans for Niku VIII.

Yes.  This is huge. 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #133 on: June 07, 2014, 01:57:17 PM »

Oh boy, Ric plan the time on site carefully competing objectives can chew up time and $.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Niku VIII Plan
« Reply #134 on: June 07, 2014, 04:53:47 PM »

It is appropriate , the search for the lost "Flying Laboratory" will do some real science
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