Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group  (Read 44726 times)

Shannon Council

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Member #3294R
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2012, 02:53:17 PM »

Which, BTW, supports what I have been saying for years, that just flying into the Phoenix Island group does NOT guarantee that you will stumble onto one of those islands. TIGHAR has been claiming the opposite, that Noonan and Earhart abandoned searching for Howland and continued to the southeast because they thought that they were sure to find one of the the many islands in the Phoenixs, So, I say TIGHAR's hypothesis on that point has been tested and proven to be incorrect.

I speculate that AE & FN were sure of nothing after missing Howland. The main point of TIGHAR's hypothesis is that they made it to Gardner somehow, more with serendipity than surety.

I drank the TIGHAR Cool-Aid.
 
Logged

Malcolm McKay

  • Read-only
  • *
  • Posts: 551
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2012, 08:01:07 PM »

that puts it in the neighborhood.  kind of
Which, BTW, supports what I have been saying for years, that just flying into the Phoenix Island group does NOT guarantee that you will stumble onto one of those islands. TIGHAR has been claiming the opposite, that Noonan and Earhart abandoned searching for Howland and continued to the southeast because they thought that they were sure to find one of the the many islands in the Phoenixs, So, I say TIGHAR's hypothesis on that point has been tested and proven to be incorrect.

gl

A good point Gary.
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2951
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2012, 10:16:07 PM »

Which, BTW, supports what I have been saying for years, that just flying into the Phoenix Island group does NOT guarantee that you will stumble onto one of those islands. TIGHAR has been claiming the opposite, that Noonan and Earhart abandoned searching for Howland and continued to the southeast because they thought that they were sure to find one of the the many islands in the Phoenixs, So, I say TIGHAR's hypothesis on that point has been tested and proven to be incorrect.

From one data point you may draw an infinite number of lines.

That one person didn't see something doesn't means someone else can't.

You have an unusually low standard of "proof" here, counselor.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2012, 07:27:48 AM »

Well it certainly increases the chances of finding aircraft wreckage on the reef at Nikumaroro if nothing else. I also noticed that another ship collided with an island in the Phoenix group apart from the whaling ship that ran aground and discovered Canton island, the President Taylor troop ship did the same in 1942.

http://www.shipwreckworld.com/articles/hard-and-fast-on-a-pacific-atoll-views-from-the-bridge-and-the-bow

They seem to be a magnet for metal

Another ship on reef
This must be the place
 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 07:37:52 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
Logged

Irvine John Donald

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2012, 10:58:52 AM »

I'm surprised Gary that you have made these statements. Jeff N is right. If TIGHAR had proof that the Electra landed on Gardner then we know about it by now. The fact is that a quite expensive expedition is going there very soon to search for proof. Hence, we still have a hypothesis not a proven theory.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2012, 12:33:12 PM »

Very good Irv!
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2012, 12:55:57 PM »

Just thought I should mention it at this stage. If the wreckage on the reef turns out to be B-17D Flying Fortress Serial Number 40-3089 does that still count as success. I think it should do as it's still an historic aircraft. I would dearly like it to be the Electra but...
This must be the place
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 02:28:20 PM »

I think so Jeff------it proves a hypothesis---that a ditched B-17 can travel underwater, although is navigation skills need some work.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 05:08:50 PM »

I think so Jeff------it proves a hypothesis---that a ditched B-17 can travel underwater, although is navigation skills need some work.

Yes, I was of that opinion as well Tom but, you would be amazed at what gets washed around in the oceans.

"Motorcycle swept away by Japanese tsunami reaches CanadaHarley-Davidson that journeyed 4,000 miles and found washed up on Canadian island is identified by its owner"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/02/motorcycle-japanese-tsunami-reaches-canada

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/01/tsunami-japan-debris-us-canada

If a submerged motorbike could make it that far I'm sure a B17-D could easily cover 20 miles after all, the wing surface areas and tailplane would make great sails to catch the ocean currents, much better than a motorbike.
This must be the place
 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 05:15:20 PM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
Logged

Greg Daspit

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 735
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2012, 05:46:48 PM »

The bike was in a storage container that floated. The container later floated away. Again. This time without the bike.
See story that shows the bike still in the container when originally found
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/01/bc-tsunami-motorcycle-owner.html

I am worried the electra floated enough to run up against the Norwich City, get stuck and then burried when the NC later broke apart. Or it planed down to a spot where the NC debris feild later covered/ hid it.

There were reports of orange target drone planes drifting to shore from far away recently
3971R
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2012, 05:49:25 PM »

Jeff---as much I think we all would like to see a wing with NR16020 on it, we do have to be open to the possiblilty of "other' aircraft wreckage. The B 17, just kinda cross into our thinking a couple of weeks ago, and mine completely by accident. Are there others? the reality is, probably.

We'll see after July.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2012, 06:10:53 PM »

That's exactly what I thought Tom, could there possibly be another aircraft that went missing and ditched in the vicinity of Gardner and, lo and behold, B-17D Flying Fortress Serial Number 40-3089 with eddie Rickenbacker et al. Lost trying to find Canton island, 200 mile overshoot to the South West estimated by surviving crew. Faulty navigation gear and, under estimated the tailwind by a farmers mile puts the ditched plane in the vicinity I guess, uncanny.
This must be the place
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2012, 07:25:42 AM »

 As we are finding out, there are alternatives that we dont know about, or dont seem relevant. But---in the case of the "aircraft wreckage", we hope it is the Electra, but as Gary (I think) stated somewhere, it could be a plane we dont know about. I mentioned a Japaneese seaplane, because we can account for all but 2 locations of crashes in the Phoenix area. The B17 and a PBY went down at sea, with no locations, but we dont know about Japaneese air activity. I would assume that during the war, they had fights in the south Pacific Islands, but I havent looked into that.

IF the ROVs do find the wreckage we are talking about, and it IS NOT the electra, then we are opening another mystery. I for one do hope it is the electra, but I'm open minded enough to think that it may be something else.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2012, 09:57:43 AM »

Me too Tom. It's airplane wreckage but whose? Rickenbacker? AE+FN? Unknown?
We should know a bit more later this year.
This must be the place
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Rickenbacker's B-17: ditched near the Phoenix group
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »

hopefully we can make the distinction between a civilian, or military aircraft---uh providing of course that it is aircraft wreckage.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 

Copyright 2019 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP