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Author Topic: News July 9 1937  (Read 62775 times)

Andreas Badertscher

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2012, 12:58:31 PM »


Richie   (cont'd)
2. First woman to fly the Atlantic
She was a passenger, nuff said    She smiled for the cameras
 
3. First woman to fly from Hawaii to Oakland.
Let;s see, ya takeoff and climb to cruise altitude, pointing your plane East and when ya see that huge land mass(the North American continent) ya look for the SF Bay and land at Oakland.  Remmember to smile for the cameras.

Harry, you make it sound soooo easy! So why did nobody else make it first? Back then I would not have tried it even as a passenger or tried to fly across the pacific in that small plane.

But she was the first woman on her own? She flew across the atlantic alone!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 01:03:17 PM by Andreas Badertscher »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2012, 01:03:53 PM »


Andreas
Someone else did do it.  I believe he did it in 1927.  His name was Charles Lindbergh.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2012, 01:14:22 PM »


Tom
Wood  Badge, eh.  Congratulations on that accomplishment!  I went thru the WB field process and got about half way thru the "Thesis" process when I changed jobs and the work pressure was such that I never got back to it.  A real regret.
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2012, 01:42:14 PM »

yeah a great experience. ive since 'retired', but still apply some of the stuff.
Highly recommend it.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Andreas Badertscher

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2012, 02:44:22 PM »


Andreas
Someone else did do it.  I believe he did it in 1927.  His name was Charles Lindbergh.

REALLY???? Wow.
I think he was a male. And she was a woman. Get it?
Either way. It was a great adventure and you could have been killed very easely doing it. So what's your point? It was also easy for Armstrong. Just sit down in that rocket, point it to the moon and once you get there just open the door, climb down and make that footprint for history. Easy peasy.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2012, 03:16:40 PM »


I on't know how easy it was for Neil Armstrong sitting up there on top of that thing,  But I suppose we could ask him, he accomplshed the goal.  Where's AE?
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Andreas Badertscher

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2012, 03:32:15 PM »


I on't know how easy it was for Neil Armstrong sitting up there on top of that thing,  But I suppose we could ask him, he accomplshed the goal.  Where's AE?

She landed succesfully in Ireland.
That's it for me.

BTW: that Armstrong comment was sarcasm from my side related to your former post.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 03:34:26 PM by Andreas Badertscher »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2012, 03:44:06 PM »

Andreas
Male/female   I don't think an airplane flies any differently for a female than it does for a male.  What's your point?

And I don't think that you seriously want us to equate AE's training in, preparation for, and aviation accomplishments  at the stage of development of the aviatiion field at her time with those of Armstrong's
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richie conroy

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2012, 04:41:41 PM »

quick question

if Earhart's receiving antenna had stayed intact an she was able to communicate instrument wise

would she be able to ?

i have read in a couple places that AE an FN had to pass notes to each other, even when sat together in cockpit due to noise of engine's

so would she be able to, hear itasca radiomen talk back to her over the noise of engines with head phones on ?

based on 1937 technology ?
We are an echo of the past


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Gary LaPook

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2012, 08:06:21 PM »


For you younger guys who have only flown with the newer ADF's with digital tuners, when I started flying the ADF's had what was called a "coffee grinder" tuner. You had to manually tune in and identify the station using the sense antenna and switch to the loop when you were close enough for the loop to work. Great fun.
Do you remember "whistle stop" tuning on your Superhomer?

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2012, 08:26:15 PM »



i mean no disrespect but i find u judging Amelia on today's technology rather sad

i really mean this now. i respect Ric, Martin, Gary, u harry, an every one else on Tighar   

so i think u shud judge Amelia for her time period an not our's  :)
I don't judge Earhart's performance against today's standards, I don't even judge her against the 1937 standards. I judge her performance against the standard she set for herself. When she was planning the flight, she and her advisers identified a need for a competent radio operator for the flight yet when Manning dropped out she ignored her own prior planning and did not look for another radio operator. Or, with the three months she had available, she could have learned radio operation and Morse code to an acceptable level of proficiency. She did neither. Without the radio she put all her eggs in one basket and, for some unknown reason, the celestial navigation did not work so they both died.  She didn't even meet her own standard.

gl
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 08:36:20 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2012, 08:57:54 PM »

Guys-----we cant think like its 2012-----or 1977. We have to take a time machine BACK to 1937---using their technology. Dark ages I know, but using todays stuff isnt going to figure out what SHE did.
As for Fred---take out the GPS, the TACAN, the XM weather, oh and the radio, and then navigate over the open ocean, under the clouds, and see how close YOU come to Howland. If you are that good, maybe we should buy the Electra that was on Ebay, outfit it EXACTLY like NR16020, and have the same radio communication problems that they had, and fly under similar conditions. Whose game? Harry? Gary? Not me---
Perhaps the best quote in Fred Goerners book came from Paul Mantz (supposedly)---the lae-Howland leg, "would like taking off fom my field here in Burbank, flying all nite with nothing to navigate by, calculate your drift, or take a star shot, and try to land on the 18 fairway on a golf course in New Jersey". I remember as a young man reading that than thought it was crazy.
Knowing what I know now------with all the problems, it was suicidal.
How many of you pilots out there fly a good distance without radio contact to someone". Oh yeah---you can nav by the ground and a map. Ok====try New York to the Virgin Islands---cloudy, nitetime, with maufunctioning radio, with just a compass. Anyone up for that?
Lets think about it-------
Tom
Sure, why not? I've got the Pioneer octant and the Mk II drift meter and the charts and nav tables already so if you'll just come up with the plane we can do it together. We can't do it on July, 2, 2012 because the moon will not be close to the position it was at in 1937 so it would be better to go on June 12th when it will be fairly close to the 1937 position. It would be even better to go on July 1, 2013 when the moon will be very close to the 1937 position. Of course it has been done already. In 1967 Ann Pelegreno and her navigator, Bill Polhemus, used celestial navigation to find Howland while flying in an Electra.

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2012, 09:41:09 PM »

And neither [RDF or ADF] will indicate whether you are going toward or away from the station without the "sense antenna".
This comes up all the time, the erroneous idea that you can't resolve the "180 degree ambiguity" without a sense antenna. You can, it is easy, and every pilot knows how to do it. Let's say Earhart has been traveling directly towards Howland and listening for the "A's" (dit dah,  dit dah,  dit dah......) from Itasca. She is now about 200 NM from Howland according to Noonan's dead reckoning, about 1730 Z. She starts to hear them but they are still to weak for her to get a minimum. Now it is 1745 Z and the signal is loud enough for her to get a minimum. She gets two minimums, one with the loop indicator 20° to the right of the nose and the second one at 20° to the left of the tail. Which is the correct bearing? Well, duh, the one in front of the plane is the only possible correct bearing because for the bearing behind the plane to be correct they would have had to have sneaked past the Itasca without hearing anything. The DR shows them approximately 170 NM short of the Itasca so we know this isn't the case so, for this scenario, there is no ambiguity to resolve. So just turn 20° to the right, the bearing is then right on the nose and you are on your way directly towards the Itasca. This is the most likely scenario for Earhart's approach to Howland.

But what if when you first get a null, the bearings are straight out to the side, over the wingtips? Then you do have an ambiguity since you might have missed the island either to the right or to the left so either bearing could be the correct one. Oh! what to do?

It's simple, just continue straight ahead. The bearings will change and the correct one will swing towards the tail. The incorrect one will swing towards the nose. Here is an analogy that might help you remember this. Let's say you are driving your car down the street and you see a really hot chick standing on the sidewalk on the other side of the street, about 45° degrees to your left. Which way does you head swing to follow her as you drive by? It swings counterclockwise, to the left, towards her tail.

If the original bearing is somewhere in between then just turn the plane to place the bearings over the wingtips, hold that heading for a few minutes and look for the one that swings towards the tail.

gl

« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 09:51:50 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2012, 09:52:17 PM »


Richie
I'm not judging AE on 2012 standards, nor even 1977 standards under which I learned to fly.

I'm suggesting that her actions did mot meet the standards of logic and common sense.  Examples
1. Morse Code was the accepted standard for communications in 1937, yet AE couldn't send/receive it at even a basic level and didn't have a Morse key to send code at any level.  She could only send by keying the mike.
2. By taking the trailing wire antenna off for weight saving reasons or cause it took time to wind it in and out eleminated any chance of sending a signal at a frequency that could be tracked by the Itasca/Howland RDF, or so I understand it.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: News July 9 1937
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2012, 10:11:23 PM »


Richie cont'd
3.  When she ttested her RDF the day before she took off, it didn't work or maybe she din't work it properly (see the Chater Report). Either way,under any standards of logic or common sense,  it  immediately goes to an radio expert for analysis and repair and takeoff gets delayed until it's fixed and/or she receives proper instruction on its correct use.  After all, it was their primary means of finding Howland from 200 miles out.  But no, she takes off anyway.
Hey, that's the ticket, we prolly won't be able to find them with our RDF and they prolly won't be able to find us with their RDF, but let's kick the tires and light the fires and go anyway.  That's why I shake my head.
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