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Author Topic: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?  (Read 19932 times)

Sheila Shigley

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Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« on: December 19, 2010, 11:41:43 PM »

I think it's interesting that both the Mrs. Joe Arnold and Betty Klenck radio intercepts mention the word "suffer(ing)."  Also, "Howland" is mentioned shortly after the "suffer" word in both reports:

Arnold:   "We're suffering, but holding on.  Couldn't see Howland Island."

Klenck:  "different suffer : Amelia : take it away : Howland"

If in fact both ladies heard the same broadcast, it seems that would make Betty's intercept also July 8th, if the LA Times article July 9th was accurate in reporting that Arnold's intercept occurred the night of July 8.  Also possible Earhart used "suffer" or "suffering" multiple times, but that word strikes me as something that would be said off the cuff, rather than included in a planned, oft-repeated message.  But I suppose the suffering was ongoing, and it's possible the word was used in multiple transmissions.

Betty reports the "suffer" reference coming in some time before 4:30pm Florida (Eastern) time; however, the LA Times refers to Arnold's Oklahoma (Central Time) intercept "tonight."  Perhaps by the time the Arnolds reported the intercept, it was already night time, and in fact the intercept itself had been earlier.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2010, 06:14:10 AM »

"Mrs. Joe Arnold" doesn't ring a bell.  Where did that come from and what did she say she heard?
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2010, 06:21:19 AM »

This link on the TIGHAR site states Mrs Joe Arnold on the bottom passage.  Not sure where the html page is though

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/timeline/AEtimeline.xml

Moderator's note: See 1937 timeline.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 06:50:30 AM by moleski »
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Bruce Thomas

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LTM,

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« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 06:29:13 AM by Bruce Thomas »
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2010, 06:27:34 AM »

Also in the wiki on the website http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/timeline/1937events.html

the Arnold passage is from the 9th July LA Times.  Just hover over the link and a message bubble with description appears.

Edited its not the Wiki but the main web site
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 06:44:44 AM »

Thanks guys.  I was out in the Pacific when that message surfaced. Marty? Do you have the scan of the original article?  If so, could you send it to me?
There's not much there to go on.  July 7th is very late in the post-loss radio drama and there's no time or frequency mentioned so it's not possible to assess the credibility from anything other than the alleged content.  The occurrence of the word "suffer" is interesting.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 06:57:47 AM »

Thanks guys.  I was out in the Pacific when that message surfaced. Marty? Do you have the scan of the original article?  If so, could you send it to me?

.pdf file e-mailed to you.

Quote
There's not much there to go on.  July 7th is very late in the post-loss radio drama and there's no time or frequency mentioned so it's not possible to assess the credibility from anything other than the alleged content.  The occurrence of the word "suffer" is interesting.

It would be great to get into the AP archives to find out when "tonight" was in the original--if the AP has such archives.

Los Angeles Times
9 July 1937 publication date. AP dated 8 July. Okmulgee, Oklahoma

"Mrs. Joe Arnold, Okmulgee, told The Times she and her daughter heard a short wave wave radio message tonight in which the name Amelia Earhart was 'repeated several times' and then that the message was 'weak, but distinct' and that the message said, 'We're suffering, but holding on. Couldn't see Howland Island.'"
LTM,

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Cynthia M Kennedy

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2010, 04:56:34 PM »

Hi Marty,

As per our conversation in the thread about post-loss radio messages (in July 2010), I wasn't able to figure out how to gain access to the AP archives.  Perhaps there is a TIGHAR member with ties to a journalism school, etc. who can access these archives?  I posted a message on Rootsweb (in the Okmulgee Co OK forum) asking for info on Mr. Joe Arnold, living in Okmulgee in 1937, but still no response.  The 1940 census will be released in 2012.  I didn't find any good leads in the 1930 census.  I also haven't been able to locate a paper for that time and place at a library near me.  Someone who could do research in Oklahoma City may be able to locate microfilm of an Okmulgee County newspaper for July 1937. 

Cindy


Thanks guys.  I was out in the Pacific when that message surfaced. Marty? Do you have the scan of the original article?  If so, could you send it to me?

.pdf file e-mailed to you.

Quote
There's not much there to go on.  July 7th is very late in the post-loss radio drama and there's no time or frequency mentioned so it's not possible to assess the credibility from anything other than the alleged content.  The occurrence of the word "suffer" is interesting.

It would be great to get into the AP archives to find out when "tonight" was in the original--if the AP has such archives.

Los Angeles Times
9 July 1937 publication date. AP dated 8 July. Okmulgee, Oklahoma

"Mrs. Joe Arnold, Okmulgee, told The Times she and her daughter heard a short wave wave radio message tonight in which the name Amelia Earhart was 'repeated several times' and then that the message was 'weak, but distinct' and that the message said, 'We're suffering, but holding on. Couldn't see Howland Island.'"
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2010, 05:25:33 PM »

As per our conversation in the thread about post-loss radio messages (in July 2010), I wasn't able to figure out how to gain access to the AP archives.  Perhaps there is a TIGHAR member with ties to a journalism school, etc. who can access these archives?  I posted a message on Rootsweb (in the Okmulgee Co OK forum) asking for info on Mr. Joe Arnold, living in Okmulgee in 1937, but still no response.  The 1940 census will be released in 2012.  I didn't find any good leads in the 1930 census.  I also haven't been able to locate a paper for that time and place at a library near me.  Someone who could do research in Oklahoma City may be able to locate microfilm of an Okmulgee County newspaper for July 1937. 

Thanks for trying, Cynthia.  We'll just have to wait and see whether there are such archives and who is eligible to view them.
LTM,

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 07:30:19 AM »

The byline crediting the story to AP seems to contradict the text which says that Mrs Arnold "told The Times..." (presumably the LA Times). Why would a woman in Oklahoma report the incident to a newspaper in Los Angeles?  My guess is that she called her local paper, they ran a story, the local AP rep noticed it and put it on the wire, and the LA Times picked it up.

We'll just have to wait and see whether there are such archives and who is eligible to view them.

The Associated Press archive is in Norwich City - oops, I mean, New York City - and the archivist, Valerie Komor, is a good friend of mine.  I'll ask her about this but I imagine that the LA Times ran what was on the wire. Our best chance of finding out more is probably to track down the archives of whatever the Okmulgee local paper was in 1937.  As it turns out, I also have friends in Okmulgee. I worked with the guys at Covington Aircraft Engines doing test runs on a Pratt & Whitney R1340 to assess fuel consumption and battery charging at low rpms.
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 08:11:32 AM »

The byline crediting the story to AP seems to contradict the text which says that Mrs Arnold "told The Times..." (presumably the LA Times). Why would a woman in Oklahoma report the incident to a newspaper in Los Angeles?  My guess is that she called her local paper, they ran a story, the local AP rep noticed it and put it on the wire, and the LA Times picked it up.
According to a genealogy website, the local newspaper in Okmulgee was founded in 1911 and is the "Okmulgee Daily Times."  So Mrs Arnold could easily have "told The Times..." her story.
LTM,

Bruce
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2010, 08:57:48 AM »

According to a genealogy website, the local newspaper in Okmulgee was founded in 1911 and is the "Okmulgee Daily Times."  So Mrs Arnold could easily have "told The Times..." her story.

Ahaaa!  Good work Bruce.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2010, 09:41:36 AM »

From http://www.mondotimes.com/1/world/us/36/2020/5039

Okmulgee Daily Times

Okmulgee Daily Times is a daily newspaper in Okmulgee, Oklahoma, USA covering local news, sports, business, jobs, and community events.

The newspaper is published 5 days each week, on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Sunday.


Circulation: 4,200 copies

This newspaper is owned by Sumner Newspapers, Inc..

This forum http://www.topix.com/forum/city/okmulgee-ok/TMJMI75ME6B0D5B1L seems to be saying that the paper has had its day but isn't conclusive


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Sheila Shigley

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2010, 04:50:17 PM »

Having myself been thought odd in modern times for spending countless hours cramped up in front of the shortwave, I think it's fascinating that AE's broadcast was (in theory) being picked up by multiple women in the 1930s.  Visions of womanly glory aside, I do realize that may imply that while the men are out earning the bread, we XX-types are taking a bit of a breather in front of the dials  :)
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Could Klenck and Arnold have heard the same transmission?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2010, 05:18:27 PM »

I have wondered much about what it was Betty was apparently trying to record as best she could understand.

You can look at the pages of the notebook.
LTM,

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