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Author Topic: Possible Rope video (2012)  (Read 62492 times)

Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 01:44:47 PM »

I'd like to propose an experiment.  How about if I put up on the TIGHAR Youtube channel, several video clips of 2012 HD footage, each at least one minute long?  Some of the clips will be from the area where some see airplane wreckage and human remains.  Other clips will be from nowhere near there - but only I will know which is which.  It should be interesting to see who sees what and where.

I think the clue to the problem is in this 5 minute clip. The amount of coral residue kicked up by the thrusters and the subsequent White out gives us some idea of what the conditions are like down there.
This must be the place
 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 01:50:03 PM »

I'd like to propose an experiment.

I like the idea of this experiment.

But I'd also like to see the 20 meters of territory below where the ROV was in the 5.5 minute 2012 clip, because I feel very strongly that there is a high liklihood of duplicating findings from the 2010 "entire" HD video.

Hope we can do both.

Tim
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 01:54:05 PM »

the many accounts of there being an aircraft wreck already present when the first settlers arrived are true, there is only one aircraft it could possibly be.

Ric, have you by any chance catalogued these various accounts? I only remember Emily, the girl who later moved to Fiji (not Tarawa, sorry). Are there any others that are not just hearsay?
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:31:45 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 02:17:42 PM »

"Only one plane makes sense to me.

I can see 'junk' being dragged in after those folks were there and trading with others here and there, if that was happening - but to find it when they arrived... hmmm.  Does kinda narrow it down, doesn't it?"

Only one we 'know ' about.  ;D I hate being the stick in the mud here, but until we raise an identifyible part of this wreckage that is 'seen', we cant say its NR16020. Sorry. We can hope and believe it is.Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 04:46:33 PM »

Hey Jeff----i'm all for hoping the the wreckage is the electra. But, this is a scientific investigation, and so I'm trying to be scientific. Gee----I wonder if Malcolm would approve of that?!
Tom
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 09:44:11 PM »

I like the idea of this experiment.

But I'd also like to see the 20 meters of territory below where the ROV was in the 5.5 minute 2012 clip, because I feel very strongly that there is a high liklihood of duplicating findings from the 2010 "entire" HD video.

Hope we can do both.

I would make the 20 meters of territory below where the ROV was in the 5.5 minute 2012 clip one of the several clips.  If the findings from the 2010 video really can be duplicated you should have no trouble identifying the proper clip.  If you duplicate the 2010 findings in a clip that was taken hundreds of meters away you may need to re-evaluate your findings.
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Michael Elliot

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 10:36:57 PM »

FYI, in an L-10,
Cable size info:
Elevator is 5/32 or 3/16
Aileron is 1/8
Trim is 1/16 or 3/32.
Cables are galvanized steel. End fittings are stainless steel with brass turnbuckles.
Cables have 7 bundles of 19 strands twisted together to make 1 cable. This is called a 7x19 cable.

Source: Crew chief on a Survivor, date 16 Dec 2012.

In a related pic from another Survivor, I see that the cables are right laid (meaning that when you look along a cable, assume the direction is North, then the bundles of fibers appear to run from SW to NE)

Chains are also used in flap controls. Seeking more info on materials used for chains, and coatings if any. More later.


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Michael Elliot

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2012, 11:32:18 PM »

Pictures of L-10 control cables.
These are from CF-TCA,  c/n 1112,  in NAM, Ottawa ONT, CAN.
Pics taken by an Air Canada pilot with 500+ hrs in L-10s who wishes to remain anon. for now. Posted to TIGHAR Forum with permission.
Compare these with ropes/cables in the videos.


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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 05:09:35 AM »

Michael,   Thanks for the info and photos. Do you know/can you find out if there are any fittings on bulkheads, etc where the cables to pass through? Something to keep the cables from chafing and wearing either the cable or the structure as the cables move?  Thanks.  LTM- John
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 10:55:06 AM »

the many accounts of there being an aircraft wreck already present when the first settlers arrived are true, there is only one aircraft it could possibly be.

Ric, have you by any chance catalogued these various accounts? I only remember Emily, the girl who later moved to Tarawa. Are there any others that are not just hearsay?

There are at least five.
- Emily Sikuli, who moved to Fiji in November 1941,  twice saw what her father told her was aircraft wreckage on the reef north of Norwich City in 1940/41.
- PBY pilot John Mims saw the locals using heavy duty fishing tackle made from aircraft aluminum and an aircraft control cable in late 1944/ early '45.  Mims knew there were no aircraft missing in the area. When he asked one of the guys where they got the stuff he was told by his informant there was an airplane wreck there when he arrived in 1941.  Mims asked where the wreck was now.  The guy just shrugged. Mims later traded for small carved wooded boxes and model canoes that had little diamond and heart shaped metal inlays.  He was told that the metal came from "the downed plane."  We had one of the inlays tested by the NTSB Lab.  It's aircraft grade 24ST ALCLAD.
- A year later, Coast Guardsman Glen Geisinger also traded with the locals for carved boxes with inlays he was told were from "the downed plane" that was once somewhere on the island.
- In the late 1950s, Tapania Taeke saw "part of a wing" on the reef near the main lagoon passage and "airplane parts" washed up on the beach.
- Her father, island school teacher Pulekai Songivalu, saw airplane wreckage washed up on the lagoon shore opposite the main passage.

When Gary Quigg's team interviewed former Nikumaroro residents in the Solomon Island's in the summer of 2011 he also ran into people who knew the legend of the downed plane.  I don't have the specific at hand.  We're still pulling together the many hours of interviews done on that trip.
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Michael Elliot

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2012, 11:36:52 AM »

John,
Cannot say for sure.
Appended shows elevator cable inside CF-TCA. It appears to pass through holes and is supported by sheaves. Fittings are possible where direction is straight through. I expect that the aileron cable may pass through a fitting where the outer wing joins the inner, but it could be just a couple of holes. Anywhere there is a change in direction, sheaves are likely.
My experience in other aircraft from the 1940s indicates most are holes and sheaves.
Am working to get copies of a large batch of photos from a rebuild. They may shed some light on the topic. Will let you know when I see them.
Ric also mentioned TIGHAR has many photos of rebuilding. I don't know if they're accessible to the Forum.
Anyway, cables, and their fittings are of interest because they're mostly made of, or coated with materials that will resist marine growth.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2012, 12:06:49 PM »

This is a control cable from New England Air Museum's c/n 1052 we photographed when it was being rebuilt.  Unfortunately there's no scale in the photo.
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JNev

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2012, 01:29:53 PM »

John,
Cannot say for sure.
Appended shows elevator cable inside CF-TCA. It appears to pass through holes and is supported by sheaves. Fittings are possible where direction is straight through. I expect that the aileron cable may pass through a fitting where the outer wing joins the inner, but it could be just a couple of holes. Anywhere there is a change in direction, sheaves are likely.
My experience in other aircraft from the 1940s indicates most are holes and sheaves.
Am working to get copies of a large batch of photos from a rebuild. They may shed some light on the topic. Will let you know when I see them.
Ric also mentioned TIGHAR has many photos of rebuilding. I don't know if they're accessible to the Forum.
Anyway, cables, and their fittings are of interest because they're mostly made of, or coated with materials that will resist marine growth.

Michael, thanks much for these pictures - great stuff.

Related to this effort but of a different component of the airframe -

Can you possibly provide a picture of the lavatory area RH fuselage skin (where Earhart briefly had a large, improvised window cut and later covered over again)?  I've attached a couple of pictures with the area of interest outlined. 

The original fastener spacing / frame arrangements are of particular interest - from the frame/bulkhead station 293 5/8 (about where lavatory forward bulkhead is I think) aft to station 320 or so (rear bulkhead of lavatory, I think).  My interest is in getting a close-up of the 'original' details in this area where Earhart had an improvised window cut, and later recovered.  External shot would be terrific - interior also would be tremendous, if able.

Thanks for sharing all this with us - it is great to have someone able to lay eyes on a 'survivor' out there and help with this kind of information.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 01:31:30 PM by J. Nevill »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2012, 02:29:41 PM »

Ric--Pics of the rebuild? I would think that would be useful----to some of us anyway!
Tom
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2012, 03:16:20 PM »

There are at least five.
- Emily Sikuli, who moved to Fiji in November 1941,  twice saw what her father told her was aircraft wreckage on the reef north of Norwich City in 1940/41.

Ric, wouldn't you agree that Emily is the only real witness here? The others saw "parts" reworked for particular purposes, or "heard tell" of an airplane wreck. Or is my interpretation too strict?

And come to think of it, wasn't  Emily relying on her father's interpretation of what was on the reef?
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:35:39 PM by Tim Mellon »
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