Highlights From the Forum October 22 through 28, 2000 |
Contents:
(click on the number to go directly to that message) |
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35 | Antenna & Propagation Simulations | Bob Brandenburg |
36 | No Choice Belief Systems | Marty Moleski |
37 | Who Visited Gardner | Tom King |
38 | Kites | Mike Everette |
39 | Kites | Bob Brandenburg |
40 | Re: Kites Again | Bob Brandenburg |
41 | Electra’s Vee Antenna | Marty Moleski |
42 | No Choice Belief Systems | William Webster-Garman |
Janet Whitney wrote: > Interesting that
we’re seeing complementary postings from practitioners Dear Janet, My view is that all humans operate with belief systems (BS). If you have found a way to "prove everything," using no unproven assumptions, you should publish your results. Mathematicians and philosophers of science have been trying to find out how to prove everything for a couple of hundred years now and have not succeeded. Goedel’s work suggests that it is impossible in principle. In denigrating my belief system, you merely exhibit your own. I gave some information about my religious, ethnic, and educational background in response to some teasing from Dennis. But in my comments on "proving negatives," I made no appeal to any authority of my own or of my Church. I based my case on public sources and gave some URLs where people could read more about the fruits of others’ labors. I make no dogmatic claims about whether or not the any-idiot-artifact (the McGuffin) can be found on Niku. The reasons for which I accept the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church are almost totally irrelevant to the question of whether the mystery can be solved next year on Niku IIII. I love TIGHAR because it is a model of how to do sound historical research. That matters to me because so much of human knowledge and culture is transmitted through history. (You can’t prove me wrong about this, because if you try to, you will have to appeal to history to do so.) TIGHAR aims to be educational, not just about AE and FN, but about how to distinguish what is known from what is not. Hauling a bunch of fallible human observers, each with their own BS, out to a speck of land in the Pacific is the right way to test the TIGHAR hypothesis. I’ve bet $80 so far that TIGHAR is right. I’m gonna plunk down my (OK, the Society’s) money for the 8th edition, too. In doing so, I’m making what seems to me to be a reasonable choice. I’m not staking the money on the conviction that the "Betty hypothesis" is true. If the McGuffin is found on Niku, the Betty hypothesis gains credibility in my book, though I would not think it proven by any means. So far as I know, discussing the BS of Roman Catholicism is off-topic in this forum. I apologize for my contribution to thread drift. (But if anyone wants to know what I think on the off-topic topic, you can buy my book from Amazon for an absurdly high price. My publisher will thank you. My provincial will thank you. I will thank you.) Ric wrote: > ... I consider
myself to Me, too. I believe you guys are gonna bring back the McGuffin next year. > TIGHAR is not
a religion. We’re not that respectable. TIGHAR is a And an addiction. Marty #2359 |
Actually, there IS some evidence of prehistoric Polynesian (or Micronesian, or Melanesian) occupation on Niku, though it’s very thin. In 1989 we found one fragmentary basalt adze bit, typical of such artifacts found in prehistoric sites throughout this part of the Pacific, on the surface in the village. Trace element analysis showed that it had almost certainly come from a known basalt quarry in Samoa. There was also a flaked core of what appeared to be andesite, found near the landing monument. Certainly not native to the island, quite likely a prehistoric artifact. Both could have been brought in by the colonists, of course, but Dan’s right, there’s extensive evidence of prehistoric occupation on nearby islands (Manra and Orona), so there’s no reason not to think that Niku was at least visited from time to time. There’s no archeological evidence that prehistoric voyagers in this part of the Pacific wore blucher-style oxfords, however. I’d guess that they were rare footgear for pirates, too. LTM (who goes barefoot) |
In a later posting I said it "might have" worked. Anything is possible. There are some technical reasons why it might have. If y’all really want to get into that I will... but hold the thought for now. There is also the old standby, PBL "Pure Blind Luck" but obviously they did not have quite enough of that, if it did work. With regard to the walkie-talkie/flagpole trick, all I know is, I did it, I know it worked THAT TIME. Why? I have no real clue. I can make a SWAG approximation but the point is, it worked. And if you want to hear it, I’ll explain that one too. But that does not mean it DID work in AE’s case. The real trick, as I see it, would have been for them to attach the kite wire to the aircraft antenna in such a way that the strain from the kite would not pull the whole antenna out by the roots... or at the very least, break the porcelain feed thru insulator or tear the mast at the apex of the Vee away. Bob Brandenburg, what say to this? Suppose (AHA! Supposition...! But we gotta start somewhere) one were to attach a 200, 250 or 300 foot wire, flown by a kite, to either the feed thru insulator, or to the apex of the Vee... Suppose again the average angle of the wire to the ground is 30 degrees. With no retuning of the radio... what’s this gonna do to the radiation? And we are leaving the original Vee antenna connected too. Remember the ground plane beneath the antenna (NOT "grounded plane" but the earth surface beneath the antenna) is darn near perfect... salt water. Which way do the prevailing winds blow on the island? From the west? That would take the kite over the water from the reef, right? Please, Hue and Janet... we are not grasping at straws; only looking at possibilities. The probabilities come later. LTM (who says nothing
is impossible to the person who does not have to do it himself) and From Ric Out there on the reef a 300 foot kite antenna is going to be over water (or at least big puddles) no matter which way the wind is blowing. |
It just occurred to me that you might have been asking me to comment on the radiation question rather than the mechanical loading problem, so here’s the radiation response. > Suppose (AHA!
Supposition...! But we gotta start somewhere) one were to Dunno for sure, but the antenna model would tell us. Offhand, I reckon it would be some funky (technical acronym for Fundamentally UNKown Yet) combination of a sloping long wire with a pseudo ground plane (the vee wire). My guess is that it would have a higher net gain than the vee antenna alone. Need to feed it to the model to get a useful answer. The lengths and angle you propose seem reasonable to me. If there’s no objection, I can run those cases and see what happens. > Remember the ground
plane beneath the antenna (NOT "grounded plane" but the A sloper over salt water - - should be pretty good. The kicker is what the vee does to the overall performance. LTM, |
Mike Everette wrote: > The real trick,
as I see it, would have been for them to attach the kite Excellent point, Mike. The vee antenna suspension system was able to handle wind loading on the antenna wire in the horizontal plane. But it’s not clear how well it could handle a load with a vertical stress component. The forward mast had a guy wire running to the top of the fuselage forward of the mast. If the mast was merely riveted to the skin of the aircraft, I wouldn’t expect it to be able to handle much of a vertical load. But if it was well-anchored to a fuselage frame, it might be able to handle the kite load. But hooking the kite wire to an arbitrary point on the vee wire could put an intolerable catenary stress load on the insulators at the ends of the wire. LTM, who thinks
too much stress is a bad thing. |
Janet Whitney wrote: > ... The Itasca
did copy Earhart from at least 200 miles away on 3105 What, if anything, might be deduced from the fact that Lae did not hear anything on 6210 until AE was four hours out and that the Itasca never heard anything from her on 6210? Is it normal for 6210 to have that kind of "cone of silence"? (I refer, of course, to Maxwell Smart, since I know more about that program than antennas.)
Ric wrote: > Any discussion
of what we hope to find on Niku would be entirely I can list some things that I hope you might find:
Marty From Ric 5. pirate treasure |
Cult: Definition 5 of Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition, 1994: "a. great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work...b. a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion." From Ric QED Now we just need to figure out where to build the compound. |
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