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Author Topic: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science  (Read 12818 times)

Bob Lanz

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Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« on: August 21, 2012, 02:30:39 PM »

Now retired,

Whoa John, you lost me at "Now retired". (just kidding)  My oldest son graduated from Baylor University with a PsyD specializing now in Developmentally disabled young adults.  Behavioral Science I suppose.  We don't talk much because if I ask him how the weather is, he wants to know why I asked. :)  Nevertheless, welcome to the forum.  I suppose in layman's terms, Amelia was headstrong and wanted to do it her way.

We have a topic in the main index Theorizing about Theories that would probably be a good place for you to start a new topic.  Enjoy and I promise I won't ask you how the weather is where you are.  ;D
Doc
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 02:33:33 PM by Bob Lanz »
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jgf1944

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Re: Re: New Member Introduction
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 05:13:41 PM »

Thank you Bob Lanz for giving me the appropriate course (chatterbox). There I can psychologize about Amelia Earhart et al. until the cows come home. John
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Re: New Member Introduction
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »

Thank you Bob Lanz for giving me the appropriate course (chatterbox). There I can psychologize about Amelia Earhart et al. until the cows come home. John


Sorry John, I did not name that topic however it is the subtitle that defines it: Theorizing about Theories > Philosophy of science, epistemology, standards of evidence, etc. I believe that is the discipline you indicated is your forte.


No offense meant,
Doc
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« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 04:33:40 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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jgf1944

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Re: Re: New Member Introduction
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2012, 04:33:48 AM »

Thank you Bob Lanz for giving me the appropriate course (chatterbox). There I can psychologize about Amelia Earhart et al. until the cows come home. John


Sorry John, I did not name that topic however it is the subtitle that defines it: Theorizing about Theories > Philosophy of science, epistemology, standards of evidence, etc. I believe that is the discipline you indicated is your forte.


No offense meant,
Truly none taken. But in that psychology is to philosophy as running is to ruminating, I may go with a different subject subtitle...or not. All Best, John #3245
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Re: New Member Introduction
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 06:05:30 AM »

John
     PS. I notice that under General Discussion there is no a Behavioral Science subject. I am thinking of creating one by replicating the inner-directed discussion above. Might be interesting, maybe even constructive, to see what the Beh. Sci. net catches.
There is lots of debate regarding the hardware, navigation, plane endurance, search, artefacts but, hardly any on the mental aspects of the two people behind all of this, AE and FN.
Feel free to start new thread on this topic. There are one or two documentaries that would provide you with plenty of information which we can supply via the forum. Be very interesting to see your views on AE's and FN's state of minds before, during and maybe after the record attempt.
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 06:11:54 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 07:36:19 AM »

I notice that under General Discussion there is no a Behavioral Science subject.       

I have created the topic so that I can move the off-topic posts out of the New Member Introduction thread.
LTM,

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 08:04:10 AM »

Good move Marty.

John

Take a look at this documentary about Amelia. Particularly the last 20 mins covering the Lae to Howland leg. Your views?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7aMcDeuQ8I


Jeff, I have replaced your link with the one above.  For some reason it gave a Real Player Error. Doc
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 09:35:02 AM by Bob Lanz »
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jgf1944

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 04:06:27 PM »

My thanks to Marty Moleski and Jeff Hayden for encouraging, and creating, the Behavioral Science subject within the General Discussion of the Amelia Earhart phenomenon. As Jeff wrote, "There is lots of debate regarding the hardware, navigation, plane endurance, search, artifacts but, hardly any on the mental aspects of the two people behind all of this, AE and FN." And with that clearance from the TIGHAR tower, let's advance the throttles and see just how high this bird will fly.

Please do not over-interpret "Behavioral Science." It is simply my way of getting the attention of folks who can, more or less, hang their hat on that peg. By behavioral, I mean perspectives on humankind that focus more on mental/social processes than physical ones; and by science I mean perspectives associated with bodies of evidence created by the scientific method (broadly defined). As the posting process grows, I believe that it itself will reveal the perspectives and disciplines that make constructive and heuristic contributions to the Earhart phenomenon.

Let me suggest a couple of start-up guidelines. Firstly, we need to become as familiar with Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan as people, as are aeronautical folks with the Lockheed Electra 10E Special (the third player in the mystery). Unless you already have a stocked Earhart shelf at eye level, that means a literature search, acquisition, and reading. (I'll provide some autobiographical and biographical titles, and I hope that other TIGHAR members will also contribute to the BehSci resource list.) Secondly, we post at the grace and good will of The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery. Therefore, I believe we should be thoroughly familiar with TIGHAR's working hypothesis regarding Earhart's disappearance and the current state of that hypothesis. And that means more homework--I am a year into the massive TIGHAR archives and am still learning. Thirdly, you must register to post. And while I do not know if TIGHAR membership is a prereq to registering, I certainly encourage a donation (501(c)3) to defray the group’s myriad expenses, which I suppose includes the webmaster for this Forum.

To whet your appetite a bit, I pass on this video AE: the Price of Courage that Jeff passed to me. Are the Amelia descriptions  biographically reliable, or are the speakers rationalizing the failure of America’s Darling of the Air to complete her world flight? (Gore Vidal met Amelia when he was a youth.)

I exit sharing the wisdom of Dr. Sidney Freedman, adjunct psychiatrist, 4077th MASH. “Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice.”
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 02:33:12 PM by John Guthrie Ford »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 04:31:40 PM »

... I do not know if TIGHAR membership is a prereq to registering ...

Not at the present time.

The earliest versions of the Forum were free.

In the last years of the e-mail Forum, membership was a prerequisite.

The decision to leave the Forum open to all and sundry or to limit it as a benefit of membership is not in the purview of myself or the other admins and moderators.  We all serve at the pleasure of the Board and the executive officers of TIGHAR, who would make that kind of decision.
LTM,

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Bill Roe

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 04:57:16 PM »


............ And with that clearance from the TIGHAR tower, let's advance the throttles and see just how high this bird will fly.

Let me suggest a couple of start-up guidelines. 


I'm not trying to be rude with this question.  And I'm certainly not attempting crude humor.  I have been wondering about this for awhile - at least since my reading these pages and several comments regarding alertness, etc.

My question is this:  Could PMS affect her ability to reason and judge ergo her ability to properly handle her airplane?  And how would it potentially affect her communications with Noonan? 

If she actually did land on the reef, I can picture Noonan not too happy with her during her approach and landing.  "Amelia, are you out of your ____ing mind?"
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jgf1944

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2012, 07:30:20 PM »

I'm not trying to be rude with this question.  And I'm certainly not attempting crude humor.  I have been wondering about this for awhile - at least since my reading these pages and several comments regarding alertness, etc. My question is this:  Could PMS affect her ability to reason and judge ergo her ability to properly handle her airplane?  And how would it potentially affect her communications with Noonan?


Bill, I do not know the answers to your questions--the analogy here is asking a propulsion engineer very technical questions about avionics. I can tell you two things: one, the behavioral (action), cognitive (thinking), and affective (emotional) dimensions of Premenstrual Syndrome have been well researched, and two, there are significant individual differences regarding the effects of PMS. If the BehSci site takes off, a psychiatrist or psychologist expert in that area may chime in on your questions. (But even if that happens, how are your aware of the correlation between the Howland flight and Ms. Earhart's reproductive cycle?) 

I will comment on your social communication question. I have read that the ambient noise level in the L10E Special cockpit was so high that it was next to impossible to hear the spoken word--and I'm pretty sure AE and FN did not have signal augmented headphones. This means that airborne, I doubt Amelia and Fred talked much. In fact, my understanding is that inflight communication was FN handing AE notes which, I presume, gave flight management info (e.g., headings). I do not know the extent that AE responded to those notes--if she did at all.

Communication wise, what is suggested is the picture of two people needing to do spot-on problem solving (per where are we? will visibility change? how much fuel left? where do we go now?), but restrained in terms of exchanging only abbreviated information. Analogously, imagine driving with your map-reading friend and you two working on finding a certain highway, while hearing only every third or fourth word.

If you want to do some digging on your own re: your questions, you might try searching "mixed gender aircrew performance" (and permutations thereof) because that topic is expressly in line with your questions. As a general resource, check out the Air Force Research Institute I remember something about a large study concerning women in various combat capacities. All Best, John, TIGHAR  #3245         
     
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 08:25:36 AM by John Guthrie Ford »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 03:57:53 PM »

John, I was doing some background research into Amelias early life and discovered her love of poetry. Not something I would have associated with a famous aviatrix but, some of her poems seem strangely prophetic?
Here's an example excerpt from a poem entitled Palm Tree...

Like crackling icicles,
Your brittle sword branches
Rattle in the small breezes
Of thick warm nights

Knowing nothing of cold
Is it with malice of ignorance
That you chill
The thick, warm dreams
Of souls uneasy at discomfort

I believe the poem was written from an observation of a palm tree frozen and covered in ice, a situation that a palm tree rarely encounters in nature without mans intervention i.e. When we plant them somewhere they can't endure. It is the last five lines that I find disturbing having been written years before the events of 1937.








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jgf1944

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 05:39:30 PM »

John, I was doing some background research into Amelias early life and discovered her love of poetry. Not something I would have associated with a famous aviatrix but, some of her poems seem strangely prophetic?
  Thanks, Jeff, for the poem; I hadn't seen that one. My reading about Amelia shows an amazing imagination and creative streak. As a youngster, she collected some old maps and put them and a few friends in an old wagon or carriage stored in a barn. There, Amelia would take everyone on elaborate fantasy trips, pointing out the routes on the maps. It doesn't take much to see the Electra cockpit as the adult projection of that dusty old wagon seat.
   Amelia's Last Flight book (Amazon and BarnesNobel e-books) closes with what I think is her signature piece of poetry. "Courage" opens with Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace / The soul that knows it not, knows no release from little things. ...  The final stanza, The soul's dominion? Each time we make a choice, we pay /  With courage to behold resistless day / And count it fair.
    My deep regret and sorrow over what must have been a horrific ending on Gardner is a bit balanced by knowing that Amelia would, IMO, have chosen even that rather than to live a life of little things.
   All Best, J. Guthrie Ford ... I'm transitioning to my middle name, thanx. 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Considerations from the field of Behavioral Science
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 05:57:18 PM »

Guthrie?
Any thing to do with Woody Guthrie? My boys final dissertation was on the legacy of Woody Guthrie on post depression American society.

Back to thread, we don't have confirmation regarding the Gardner island theory, yet. "each time we make a choice we pay" if only she had known the price of the wrong choice. Hindsight assisted philosophy from me I know.
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