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Author Topic: Norwich City - could it have been home?  (Read 30222 times)

Greg Daspit

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2012, 08:51:36 AM »

how do you suggest that they wrote an "SOS" on the ship?

Most people who described the Norwich City as being “gutted”  did not board it. Dick Evans did board it a
and described a structure in good shape.

From looking at some plans of tramp steamers the paint could have been kept forward of the bulkhead where ship stores were kept.  Since it was raining when the ship caught fire, water could have been collecting on the forecastle deck plating where it then  poured over this bulkhead between the #1 hold and the forecastle.  The hold was empty so lack of cargo should have lessened the fuel to burn. So the fire may have had to cross an empty hold, get through a water fall, then through the steel collision bulkhead designed to isolate parts of the ship from fires. This could have prevented the fire from getting to the other side.  Or not. There is not much information on the condition of the inside of the ship from someone who boarded it. The paint could have survived a number of ways. It could have been in an area forward that did not burn.  It could have been on a deck that collapsed into a hold filled with water. It could have been in a fire locker and survived because of lack large amounts of fuel to burn around it.
Here is how it could be done:
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 06:12:22 PM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2012, 09:09:14 AM »

If the Navy Float Planes (or the ...Itaska...) had seen an "SOS" painted on that obviously ancient hulk of a derelict shipwreck, they would likely have associated it with the long-ago rescue of the Norwich City's crew.

Now, if they Had Painted "AE" or something...
_____________________________________

Now Fred being a current rated Ship's Master :o would/could ::) have recognized that the Stern of that Norwich City would be the easiest 'boat' access to the Island as the Bevington Crew did on their visit a few months later. This would have increased the likelihood of using the derelict as 'home-base' if possible.

All good points
Writing "AE here camped SE" was my first thought. I think they could have wrote that on the bottom from the reef but tides washed it off. I also think if the search plans saw a fresh SOS they would have reported it which could mean that it wasn't written until after they flew over. Their orginal plan for a signal may have failed. For example they tried to start a fire and didn't have time, water washed away an SOS in the sand, the flare gun didn't work or was lost, their "markers" didn't work. I think the SOS may have needed some banners or markers with it to indicate a fresh SOS so people didn't think it went with the ship. Those things that are fresh may have blown away. See thread on possible S.O.S on Norwich City". The N.C survivors did not write it. They had already made contact by radio and the ship was still on fire when the rescuers arrived.

Also boarding the stern from the sea is a way people who moored to it, did board it.
It was also possible to board it from the large rent in the port side just by walking in from the reef at low tide
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 09:21:23 AM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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JC Sain

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2012, 01:51:27 PM »

While this is a bit of drift from the OP. This thread made me think a lot about the ship and the theory of the plane being washed off the reef. Given many say it would float until torn apart I have often wondered if it could have been washed into the side of the NWC. I have looked at photo's with an eye to see scrape marks but few photo's show the North side of the ship very well or that close. Yeah I know long shot but its this kind of sideways view that I think will help spur things along.

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Greg Daspit

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2012, 07:09:07 PM »

Anyone know if the portholes were open in any pictures of the shipwreck?
Since they were in a storm when they hit the island they should have been closed.
If someone was to stay on the crew bunk deck for long they may have tried to get them open for ventilation.
However, I think the better choice to stay is the two little stair houses if they were going to be on the look out and get good breezes high up.
I still think they wouldn't stay there long. Just long enough for water to run out, then leave a message

The document attached shows two decks for ships stores in the forepeak
The decks should be about where the "S.O.S" is. If paint did survive it could have been right there.
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2012, 07:57:14 PM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 01:56:36 PM »

Quote
As i've posted before, a grounded ship is not the nicest environment to stay on.  Grinding metal and groaning as the tide comes and goes would keep the nerves on a taught string.

OK...I'm castaway on Niku; one look at them coco crabs and the grinding and groaning of the NC is a small price to pay.

LTM,

Don
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 02:06:00 PM »

Don,

you've got to get on a hulk on shore in tide to appreciate it.  Natives and coasties managed Bigus so AE/FN could have (should have, would have etc..)

Must be a language barrier because I don't understand a word your saying  ??? and what is a "Bigus"  ???  All I was comenting to was that fact that if "I" had the choice, "I" am gonna take the lesser of 2 evils...  Grinding and groans are noises whereas a coco crab trying to take a chunk outta you is painful.

LTM

Don
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 06:20:42 PM »


Must be a language barrier because I don't understand a word your saying  ??? and what is a "Bigus"  ???  All I was comenting to was that fact that if "I" had the choice, "I" am gonna take the lesser of 2 evils...  Grinding and groans are noises whereas a coco crab trying to take a chunk outta you is painful.

LTM

Don

I think he meant birgus latro those great ugly coconut crabs.
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George Pachulski

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 06:49:38 AM »

In looking at the picture I would propose that the painting on the side of the ship was accidental. How so? In that the stores including paint may have broken open after impact and rocking to further run down the starboard side of the crew quarters and out seawater ports or other rents in the side.

 The ship is leaning to starboard in the photo on the beach , the paint or waterever could have just run down that side of the ship out of the ports or tears  and encrusted itself on the side. No decernable letters are there.

 just an opinion
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Monte Chalmers

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 12:52:23 PM »

"I" am gonna take the lesser of 2 evils...  Grinding and groans are noises whereas a coco crab trying to take a chunk outta you is painful.
My original thought exactly!
Is it paint or Guano? Think thats been discussed before  :)
:D I don't know that answer, but the birds around the ship is something I'd considered when I was going to make it my home.  I read in another thread about one of the islands that has millions of birds -  you only had to get near to smell them.  ;D
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
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Monte Chalmers

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 07:13:04 PM »

Living with the thought that at any moment that groan could mean the ship does something that could well be fatal to you both
Chris,
Where is this documentation about this "groan"?  Or is it just an understanding that all grounded ships do it?  And wouldn't it make a difference how much of the NC was high and dry?  I don't know about such things - I wasn't in the navy - retired from the USAF a long time ago.  But the next time I talk with my son, who's an old USN man - I'll ask.  *just made a note*  ;D
Those crabs and rats are animus! - maybe the crabs.  ;D
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George Pachulski

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2012, 07:14:49 AM »

To add to the creepiness ...

In the TIGHAR account by Otiria O'Brian there is mention of finding human bones around the ship , from the dead sailors ? washing out of their graves or still in situ; as well as an islander who died in the ship whilst scavenging in the 40's or 50's , then the ship was put off limits to the colony.

In some  shipwrecks entire decks become so weak that the weight of a human could peirce the floor and let them drop  a few decks...not something to look forward to ...
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Monte Chalmers

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2012, 08:31:06 AM »

OK, Chris - you're maybe right.   :)  If what you say was true,  I might well have agreed it wasn't a place to call home. In hind sight, though, the NC was there many years - it was securely grounded.

In the TIGHAR account by Otiria O'Brian there is mention of finding human bones around the ship , from the dead sailors ? washing out of their graves or still in situ; as well as an islander who died in the ship whilst scavenging in the 40's or 50's , then the ship was put off limits to the colony.
Hi George. I read that one too.

Also in my reading, I came across this: http://tighar.org/wiki/File:Contour_Map_NZ_Aviation_Survey_(Wigram_AFB_Archives).jpg

The NZ Aviation Survey - sort of shows the NC beached about half its length.  I read that the ship was riding high because it had no cargo - and it must have also been moving pretty fast .
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Norwich City - could it have been home?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2012, 10:07:56 AM »

OK, Chris - you're maybe right.   :)  If what you say was true,  I might well have agreed it wasn't a place to call home. In hind sight, though, the NC was there many years - it was securely grounded.

In the TIGHAR account by Otiria O'Brian there is mention of finding human bones around the ship , from the dead sailors ? washing out of their graves or still in situ; as well as an islander who died in the ship whilst scavenging in the 40's or 50's , then the ship was put off limits to the colony.
Hi George. I read that one too.

Also in my reading, I came across this: http://tighar.org/wiki/File:Contour_Map_NZ_Aviation_Survey_(Wigram_AFB_Archives).jpg

The NZ Aviation Survey - sort of shows the NC beached about half its length.  I read that the ship was riding high because it had no cargo - and it must have also been moving pretty fast .


Just the inertia of a ship weighing what the Norwich City did even travelling at maybe 5 to 6 knots would have put her half way up on that reef.  At launching, the gross tonnage was calculated to be 5633.2; her displacement was 8730 tons. Pictures in this link shows how far she was up on that reef.  The average high tide on Nikumaroro is only @4.6 feet which wouldn't have made a difference with her displacement.




Doc
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