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Author Topic: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance  (Read 71170 times)

Bruce Thomas

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2012, 06:46:17 AM »

Gary, you're still thinking like a sixty-something.  You're looking for music, sweet, sweet music.

Betty was 15 years old at the time.  As I've noted before, kids are going to be kids.  Yeah, she loved music.  But she probably also loved playing with her father's sleek new radio.  Just because there may not be shortwave broadcast stations at the high end of the band doesn't preclude a 15 year-old from spinning that dial as far as it will go.  And, "Wow!  What's that?  It sounds like a voice.  It ain't music, but it sounds neat.  And it's weak.  Must be a long ways off.  Let me see if I can pick out what's being said."
LTM,

Bruce
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2012, 08:35:53 AM »

My hunch/hypothesis?  Betty read the St. Petersburg, Florida newspaper headlines on July 3rd 1937, and couldn’t resist joining in on the new fad sweeping the country that day - searching for more "AE radio signals" - like those first reported by the two hoaxers, Walter McMenamy and Karl Pierson.

Read the St. Petersburg Florida “Evening Independent” from July 3rd, 1937 here-
 
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=PZE8UkGerEcC&dat=19370703&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

 “AMELIA’S VOICE HEARD IN SOS”

“Pan American Airways and Coast Guard On Other Hand Have Heard Nothing”
 
“Reports that the voice of tousle-haired Amelia Earhart had been picked up, calling “SOS’ from the mystery spot where she is lost in the mid-Pacific, buoyed hopes for her ultimate rescue today as the U.S. Navy ordered a battleship into the search…..”

On July 5 the same paper reported, [on page 2, col. 2]
 
 “…radio listeners all around the Pacific and far inland sought anew to catch unexplained distress signals, voices and “signals” which for two nights have buoyed hopes the missing aviators might be calling desperately for aid….”

The St. Petersburg Times newspaper of course was reporting the story too-
 
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=feST4K8J0scC&dat=19370706&printsec=frontpage&hl=en

My suggestion to interested TIGHAR’s is to spend time carefully looking over contemporary news reports about Earhart’s disappearance in Google’s incredible archive of newspapers.  I think it will become clear that McMenamy and Pierson set off a case of public hysteria that continues to this day.

The complete archive is here.

http://news.google.com/newspapers

Another example –

Ray Havens and Arthur Monsees, two more radio operators later dismissed as hoaxers [even by Tighar] are mentioned in this story-

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1876&dat=19370709&id=PEosAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yMoEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7052,719990

BTW, McMenamy and Pierson can be seen at work here-

http://lighthouseantiques.net/Photos%20-%20Coast%20Guard.htm

11421. (photo) Radio Amateurs and Coast Guard Cutter Itasca Listens for Amelia Earhart as she makes her 1937 attempt to fly around the world c.1937. Period b/w press photo shows amateur radio operators Karl Pierson and Walter McMenamy at their radio. They were the radio operators who copied Amelia Earhart’s S.O.S. as she attempted her around the world flight in 1937. The Coast Guard Cutter Itasca was the "picket ship" that would provide air navigation andradio links for Amelia Earhart when she made her 1937 attempt to fly around the world. Itasca, stationed at Howland Island in the Pacific, tried to keep in radio contact with her. However, due to a series of misunderstandings or mishaps (the details of which are still controversial), two-way radio contact was never established and Earhart was lost at sea. Photo measures 5” x 7 ½” with date and credit line on back. Chip to one corner. Dated July 5, 1937. A piece of history. (VG). $38.



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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2012, 09:28:04 AM »

A good observation and very plausible. Obviously then her father was also in on the ruse as he reportedly went next door to the neighbours house to see if they could also hear the transmission. I don't see the point in perpetuating the hoax decades later but, you never know, there may be some reason. So, good point Mark, I hadn't considered that possibility.

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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2012, 09:42:17 AM »

Jeff, I don't read into Mark's posting an implication that Betty was a hoaxer.  Rather, the newspaper reports might have heightened her awareness of the possibility of hearing things on the shortwave frequencies and spurred her interest in scanning those bands.  Lo and behold, she heard something, grabbed her notebook and the rest is history.
LTM,

Bruce
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2012, 10:08:49 AM »

To be clear.... I don't believe Betty's story rings true. 

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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2012, 11:15:37 AM »

My suggestion to interested TIGHAR’s is to spend time carefully looking over contemporary news reports about Earhart’s disappearance in Google’s incredible archive of newspapers.

Go for it.

If you can find reports of alleged post-loss radio transmissions that are not already in the catalog, I'm sure that Ric and Bob would be happy to evaluate them.

There is a "Join the Search" board with the topic, "Does your local paper have stories about messages after July 2, 1937?" I created this thread after an EPAC meeting because it is so hard to tell whether all newspaper accounts have been turned up.
LTM,

           Marty
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2012, 11:27:30 AM »

To be clear.... I don't believe Betty's story rings true.

To be honest I'm not 100% convinced either but, I do put a lot of credence in the Pan Am personnel who logged post loss transmissions. They new a little more about communications than a little girl and her father.
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2012, 11:37:43 AM »

Doesn't ring true in what sense?

she made it up?

she was listening to something she mistook?

please describe what and why?

Betty's notebook is not conclusive by any means, but really interesting given the context. 
I'd like to hear you elaborate on what exactly doesn't ring true.

amck
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Anthony Allen Roach

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2012, 11:43:31 AM »

"I do put a lot of credence in the Pan Am personnel who logged post loss transmissions."

I agree with Jeff Hayden.  The Betty Notebook is interesting to me, but I don't put any reliance in it one way or the other.  It is the direction finding by Pan Am that convinces me.  To fool Pan Am, a hoaxer would have be sitting on Gardner or the vicinity, and transmitting on those frequencies.  And a hoaxer sitting on Gardner, transmitting on those specific carrier frequencies is not just plausible to me.
"Six the Hard Way."
 
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2012, 12:04:40 PM »



I believe Betty's story is an interesting case of what Marty once described rather nicely as the "Helpful Witness Syndrome."

See- 
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Forum/Forum_Archives/200710.txt

Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:20:58

"...People get excited about the prospect of becoming The One Who
Solved Aviation's Greatest Mystery and start to "remember" things
that didn't happen..."

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Adam Marsland

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2012, 02:59:27 AM »

I tend to believe Betty's Notebook, but I do think Mark has brought forward something that is at least a plausible factor in a hoax, which to my mind we haven't heard thus far.  The timing is right, and there could be a suggestibility factor there.  It's something to bear in mind...to me, it doesn't go anywhere near covering all the known facts of the matter but as I've said upthread, if the notebook is not authentic, then it's likely the product of a lot of other bizarre and unlikely things interacting, and this could be one of them.

Once, when I was 13, I got up in the middle of the night, turned on the radio, spoke some random words in response to the words in the song, and 15 seconds later I heard those words in my own voice coming back to me on the radio mixed in with the song.  I know it's impossible.  I also know it happened.  I have no explanation why.  I'm sure there is one, though.  So...who knows.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 03:02:36 AM by Adam Marsland »
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2012, 09:54:22 AM »

Betty was interviewed in 2007 by Dick Gordon of National Public Radio.  Listen to the interview here-

http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_325_Listening_For_Amelia.mp3/view

She tells how she went on to earn her private pilot license during World War II; mentions something about working on her commercial license, and also says-

“They wanted me to join the Ferry Command.” 

There’s more in the radio interview about how she met her future husband at an airport […where she claims she was also employed if I heard correctly…], after she “dusted him off” with her plane’s prop wash after coming in for a landing.

I hate to be blunt, but I find this last story to be a bit of a stretch to put it nicely. In my mind, it casts doubt on all the other parts of her “personal flight history.” But I will take my lumps if these reports by Betty can be proven true. It seems to me that Betty’s story of obtaining her pilot’s license in World War II could be verified today--- without asking [and offending] her directly.  Could anyone here help suggest how to go about that? Would FAA records be filed away somewhere?
 
If Betty truly was a licensed pilot in World War II, great.  If not, I think we have to cast off her notebook as evidence.

More about her story here-

http://thetruthisstrangerblog.blogspot.com/

“…Brown channeled her experience into a life path that helped her somehow connect with the lost aviator: she became a pilot herself. She said "she wanted to do something for her (Amelia)." Brown, possessing some of the same confidence and bravado as Earhart, met her husband, also a pilot, dusting him as he walked into an airplane hangar as she taxied in from a flight. They were married three weeks later.  The interview doesn't tell us much about Betty's life past her early flying experiences and the heart-warming story of how she met her future husband. But this is a story deserving to be told.”
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Jeff Carter

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2012, 11:18:41 AM »

Betty was interviewed in 2007 by Dick Gordon of National Public Radio.  Listen to the interview here-

http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_325_Listening_For_Amelia.mp3/view

She tells how she went on to earn her private pilot license during World War II; mentions something about working on her commercial license, and also says-

“They wanted me to join the Ferry Command.” 

There’s more in the radio interview about how she met her future husband at an airport […where she claims she was also employed if I heard correctly…], after she “dusted him off” with her plane’s prop wash after coming in for a landing.

I hate to be blunt, but I find this last story to be a bit of a stretch to put it nicely. In my mind, it casts doubt on all the other parts of her “personal flight history.” But I will take my lumps if these reports by Betty can be proven true. It seems to me that Betty’s story of obtaining her pilot’s license in World War II could be verified today--- without asking [and offending] her directly.  Could anyone here help suggest how to go about that? Would FAA records be filed away somewhere?
 
If Betty truly was a licensed pilot in World War II, great.  If not, I think we have to cast off her notebook as evidence.

More about her story here-

http://thetruthisstrangerblog.blogspot.com/

“…Brown channeled her experience into a life path that helped her somehow connect with the lost aviator: she became a pilot herself. She said "she wanted to do something for her (Amelia)." Brown, possessing some of the same confidence and bravado as Earhart, met her husband, also a pilot, dusting him as he walked into an airplane hangar as she taxied in from a flight. They were married three weeks later.  The interview doesn't tell us much about Betty's life past her early flying experiences and the heart-warming story of how she met her future husband. But this is a story deserving to be told.”

Here you go:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YCpPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fk0DAAAAIBAJ&dq=betty-klenck&pg=4628%2C7712006
(Scroll down to "Wings Sprout")

So she was working on a license.  And did get married soon after:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tBtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jk0DAAAAIBAJ&dq=betty-klenck&pg=5272%2C5609701



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Matt Revington

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2012, 12:21:25 PM »

I agree Jeff.  If the Electra is found off the reef of Niku it will neither confirm or debunk anything about the notebooks.  Betty may be a sincere old lady and the notes may be an accurate record of an odd thing she heard on shortwave around the time of Amelia's disappearance.  Even if she really did somehow hear the real Amelia for the long period she claimed so what, the transcript  is cryptic to say the least, maybe it shows a chaotic situation in the cockpit while trying to transmit as the tide comes in on the reef, maybe something else is going on.  Unless I'm missing something the only independently testable reference I see was the odd comment about the suitcase, which could have been checked in 1937 or at least as long as George Putnam was alive but not now.  I don't really understand all of the effort and emotion being put into this subject.  At least the materials found at the seven site will acquire greater relevance if the electra is found, until then they are just intriguing but ambivalent artifacts, Betty's notebook will always be just  a curiosity
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2012, 12:26:48 PM »

Matt, here is an article on the suitcase
3971R
 
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