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Author Topic: NIKU VII  (Read 274394 times)

Michael Calvin Powell

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #196 on: July 21, 2012, 09:55:19 AM »

Not as disappointing as it first appears. Lots of new data and footage to analyse and, you never know. Shame the wire and rope couldn't be found this time around but, without the GPS co-ordinates and, given the topography of the reef, no surprise really. If the aircraft had remained in one piece or even big bits, it would have stuck out like a sore thumb.
IMHO
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Greg Daspit

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #197 on: July 21, 2012, 10:54:24 AM »

Jeff,
A major part of the plan was to pick targets with the AUV, then use the ROV.
It seems it took multiple passes of the AUV just to pick out the giant stern of the Norwich City. The plane could still be in big pieces and was still misssed so I don't know if it would stick out like a sore thumb if the pieces were big. At least not to the AUV. If it was there.
They didn't search everywhere with the ROV.
From the Dailies:
 "everything with the AUV’s sonar turns on the exact angle as it flies past, and it’s tough to program in repeated passes when you don’t know what’s there or what might be there. In fact, the AUV did not see any of the Norwich City wreckage on the first several passes – it required a completely different angle and approach and suddenly the great mass of crumbling steel appeared"
BTW I do know the difference between the design of aluminum planes and steel ships (from your previous response to my saying it would be difficult to pick out sonar targets to search in the NC debris you noted that difference for some reason) It turns out even coral can be thought of as a very good target based on sonar. They did have a very difficult task.
I do agree they have alot of data,ROV footage,AUV scans from different angles, etc. to go thru, They still could have found something important and haven't said it or don't know yet
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #198 on: July 21, 2012, 11:12:41 AM »

Yes agreed, AUV's prefer a flatish surface underneath them Gregory to make best use of the technology. It became apparent early on that a reef face like the Gardner seamount was going to be a challenge for sonar, too many grooves, caverns, holes, ridges, plates, boulders, shelves, gullies,. Too many false targets hiding real targets...?
Still, the ROV won't be so easily misled, it records what is there and, makes it easier to sort out the above from...?
They were able to identify and eliminate NC wreckage quite easily but aircraft wreckage won't survive as well as ship wreckage in those conditions.
All IMHO of course
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richie conroy

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #199 on: July 21, 2012, 12:06:11 PM »

Very interesting the end bit of today's update, About the wire and net on reef slope  :)

 http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Niku7/niku7dailies4.html
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #200 on: July 21, 2012, 04:47:19 PM »

Very interesting the end bit of today's update, About the wire and net on reef slope  :)

 http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Niku7/niku7dailies4.html

A fishnet rope tangle, who in their right mind would be trawling a seamount? Takes all sorts I guess. That's one sure way of losing your net/ship ;D
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richie conroy

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #201 on: July 21, 2012, 05:47:03 PM »

how long as island been uninhibited ?

would be interesting to find out date/era of net, so hopefully Ric will post video for us to analyze it  :)   

 
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #202 on: July 21, 2012, 06:02:36 PM »

how long as island been uninhibited ?

would be interesting to find out date/era of net, so hopefully Ric will post video for us to analyze it  :)

The Pacific Ocean is positively replete with large commercial fishing fleets from countries that border it. In fact their lost nets and cables are one of the biggest threats to marine life in the Pacific. It is no surprise that a net and its lines would turn up on the slope off the island - in fact that is the obvious answer to what that piece of cable in the video is, I worked that out the first time I saw it.
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richie conroy

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #203 on: July 21, 2012, 06:26:51 PM »

I was thinking more on the lines of how far it was from surf line ?

If you were captain of vessel that lost that rig if it is from fishing boat, you would have to be suicidal to go so close to reef, Norwich city being the example why

which lead's me to believe it may have been dropped off reef edge at low tide, because it would have floated into or beyond nc wreck if it were from ship far out ?

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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #204 on: July 21, 2012, 09:06:02 PM »

I was thinking more on the lines of how far it was from surf line ?

If you were captain of vessel that lost that rig if it is from fishing boat, you would have to be suicidal to go so close to reef, Norwich city being the example why

which lead's me to believe it may have been dropped off reef edge at low tide, because it would have floated into or beyond nc wreck if it were from ship far out ?

Didn't need to get close - before they were banned some of these nets were 50 kms long, some countries still use extra long nets. If they snag, the skipper just cuts the line. They are absolute environmental disasters.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_netting

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #205 on: July 22, 2012, 12:07:05 AM »

What we couldn't work out was how the 'fishing line' managed to get trapped underneath whatever it is and, weave its way through whatever it is. They might have been the unluckiest fishermen in history when whatever it is landed/fell on top of their lines or, they caused a huge underwater landslide which trapped their lines. That'll teach them to trawl a 90 degree seamount, sonar faulty or, just ignored it?
$36,000 rig cut loose (North sea, 2009 prices) no wonder fish is so expensive ;)
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #206 on: July 22, 2012, 07:34:58 AM »

I have a lot of confidence in the fact that, with all the data and video capture there will be a significant outcome to this expedition. The haystack is heading back to Hawaii, it's just a matter of searching it for the elusive needle.

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Randy Conrad

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #207 on: July 22, 2012, 09:37:50 AM »

Jeff, I'm kind in agreement on what you are saying! What I would like to know, as much as Richie would too, is how big is this net? Plus, was this net capable of retrieving the whole Electra, or parts and pieces of her. You never know! Also, in past expeditions, did the ROV that searched the other side of the island, did they by chance run into any nets or rope over there? Was this net used on the Norwich City and did by chance Amelia and Fred use this to catch fish with. Getting back to the size of the net, and the chance of someone using it to pick up the Electra or pieces of her. At one point, did a fishing boat or maybe the "Japanese" stumble on her.
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JNev

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #208 on: July 22, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »

The net / associated rope just adds one more huge variable to the search - think about what Malcolm has shared. 

Those nets are huge and can turn up anywhere; I think they can also drift well enough to about anywhere.  I don't know much about net construction, but some may have flotation of some sort built in too which could cause drift to be a big factor in what happens once those buggers are free.

Why the variable for the search?  If the wreck was anywhere in the path of such a net, and the net was being moved by other forces such as a ship that hadn't cut it loose yet or a storm, the wreck might be dragged off a shelf, etc.

One thing TIGHAR definitely will bring home from Niku this time is more knowledge that we search in a very tough environment.  If there really is a needle in that haystack, it well may have been moved around.
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« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 11:03:58 AM by J. Nevill »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #209 on: July 22, 2012, 01:25:42 PM »

It would be interesting to see this net Jeff. It may shed some light on type of fishing and, age of fishing gear. Deep sea fishing is a recent development, 1970's, with the advent of  the technology for long range commercial fishing vessels and fleets. Yes, prehistoric man did deep sea fishing but obviously not with cables/wires/nets etc... Or, 6000 miles from his home.
The flotation devices, if any, will be a good clue as to the type of fishing and, likely origin.
Notice how we already have something to debate from this expedition. Let's hope there will be more 'somethings'.
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