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[richie conroy]

it won't be the end of the theory

Tighar will have to re evaluate the evidence and try finding new smoking gun evidence on land 

however i believe it won't come to that 

[Anthony Allen Roach]

It seems to me that it may be entirely possible that the Electra or remnants may be further out in deeper water.  In my naval architecture class, we used to tinker around with ship models in the wave tanks.  We never experimented with aircraft.  It seems to me that a plane that can glide in the air will also have a glide path in the water as it sinks and comes to rest.

[Tom Swearengen]

And Jeff---its deeper than we have video footage for!

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

great. I understand the sponsors get priority.  Is there a plan that has been discussed openly?

Yes.  The plan is for the Discovery Channel to decide what gets published when.

They purchased the rights to the story.

[Rafael Krasnodebski]

If it is good news, can't we even get a hint ... like a smiley face from Ric? The suspense is doing my head in 

[Michael Calvin Powell]

It seems to me that it may be entirely possible that the Electra or remnants may be further out in deeper water.  In my naval architecture class, we used to tinker around with ship models in the wave tanks.  We never experimented with aircraft.  It seems to me that a plane that can glide in the air will also have a glide path in the water as it sinks and comes to rest.

Actually, I've always thought there is a fair chance that most of the plane would be off shore by a good ways.  Those empty fuel tanks mean that the plane was extremely bouyant.  If a storm washed it out to sea then it may have floated a good ways off.  That doesn't fit with the recollection of settlers of airplane wreckage but consider this from the Ameliapedia:

Buoyancy of NR16020
"The opinon of supposed experts at the time was that, with all those empty fuel tanks, the Electra would float 'indefinitely.' We actually had some calculations run by Oceaneering International in 1991. There were 12 individual fuel tanks aboard NR16020 – three in each wing and six in the cabin. If all the tanks were empty and intact, the 7,000 lb (empty weight) airplane would be 1,200 pounds buoyant. Damage to one, or even all, of the tanks in one wing should not be sufficient to sink the airplane."

Of course the storm could batter the plane so much that the tanks would no longer be airtight but it still seems to be that it might float a good distance away from the reef - just hopefully leaving debris behind.

[Randy Conrad]

As mentioned in the past couple of dailies, Ric keeps talking about how steep the reef face is and how treacherous it has been to maneuver stuff around! With the reef face that steep and treacherous, has there been any indication that at any time there might have been any seismic activity to suggest movement of corral and debris. Let's say for example that indeed the plane did fall off the reef's edge and down below...Is there any sign that boulders and rocks of corral could have buried the Electra or parts of the plane? Also, Ric at the conference Jeff, Irv, Tom, and I noticed that on the aluminum plane piece that you had on exhibit. Noticed that the small rivet holes appeared to be normal. As if they were never used. But, also appeared that the rivets could have possibly been pushed out by some means of force. In most scenarios a push or a kick on aluminum or tin usually tears things up. So the question I have is...what is the pressure like at the depths you guys are searching...and is it possible that pressure could blow a plane apart at those depths. Especially the Electra?

[don hirth]

Well, I think, the best "smoking gun" would be a WASP. An engine will be found easier than anything else. Do you agree?

Yes, Oskar. (Best bets) engine/s, cockpit, front wheels, 'perhaps' a substantial
section of the fuse. 'skeleton.'

[Tom Swearengen]

if I can indluge for a moment--Guys dont make me stand in a corner over this !!!
Ok---we know the original ROV footage was somewhere around 800 feet. Richie, Jeff V H, and alot of others have poured over this and 'found' some interesting things. From what I gather from the dailies, The AUV & ROV are around 1200, and just finding parts of the shipwreck. So---I'm guessing---MY OPINION ONLY, is that they have targeted those things that Richie and Jeff spotted, and are going back to them, or they didnt find them, or---3rd possibility is they aint saying. My hope would be option 3 (aint saying), so we can have the big reveal and a party.
The one good thing about all of this is that the Kiribati Govt will get a really good idea of the reef slope around Niku, and have documented stuff thats there. Hazards to navigation and all that stuff.
Hearing that the NC larger parts are around 1200 is very interesting, and plays into the idea I had about the reef slope looking like the Napali Coastline of Hawaii, or the north shore of Molakai. 3-4000 feet almost vertical, with crevasses and outcroppings. It will be very interesting to see the footage that Discovery releases. I hope for history's sake, that the include  a bit on the Norwich City, to give some background on what we are going to see.

Tom

[Tom Swearengen]

We are learning alot from the underwater search. First lesson, nothing is written in stone, ahh coral. Even the best in the business have issues. WE knew it was going to be tough, but WOW!
Glad they have spares on board, or this could get expensive in a big hurry. I bet Ric is sweating bullets everytime the remotes go in the water. Hang in there Ric---you are closer than you think.

[richie conroy]

I bet. target 1 has two rope wire laying on it weather it be electra or norwich city wreckage

[Andrew M McKenna]

It is interesting to note that not everything gets mentioned in the TIGHAR Daily Reports.

Check this tidbit from the KOK log found at http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/UMC/Reports/KOKreport.htm


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
DAILY REPORT FOR SATURDAY, JULY 14, 2012

KOK 12-07, TIGHAR
POSITION: LAT: 04-39.4 S//LONG: 174-33.8 W MILES RUN: 0 NM//
TOTAL MILES RUN: 1844 NM ON STATION NIKUMARORO ISLAND

COMMENTS: ON STATION NIKUMARORO IS.
THEY GOT THE AUV UP AND RUNNING. CONDUCTED AUV SURVEY ALL
NIGHT ,RECOVERED AUV 0800 THIS MORNING. DIVING ROV TODAY.
YESTERDAY AFTER AUV RECOVERY, LITHIUM BATTERY BOX WAS SMOKING,
FRIED CIRCUIT BOARD, REPLACED WITH NEW AND OPERATIONS ARE
GOING BETTER. 0900 START ROV SURVEY.  SHIP AND CREW DOING FINE.
>>>>>>>>>

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

They are not having an easy time for sure. The conditions on the reef face are even worse than I imagined, and I have always thought it was bad but, even this comes as a surprise.
It is becoming clear that this is no place for an aircraft to rest in peace. Full marks for the teams in keeping the equipment up and running in such a hostile environment. The hand printed sign 'worst environment imaginable' sounds like an understatement.

IMHO of course

[Tom Swearengen]

Kudos for the crew and staff of Phoenix for getting things up and running.  Very professionally done from what I read.
Thanks andrew for the tidbits---interesting that they would be having equipment issues, other than the thether on the ROV. I can certainly understand that. but smoking batteries on the AUV? HUM---Perhaps the Electra doesnt want to be found. 

[richie conroy]

how long is left of expedition ?