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Author Topic: Islander Fraternisation?  (Read 40093 times)

Malcolm McKay

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2012, 06:18:30 PM »

... yet Gary and Malcolm have veered off into the wildly unsupported "speculative fantasy" that they so strenuously object to in other threads such as the post loss radio signals, which they reject as being not credible because there is no "proof" that they directly linked to Amelia.


The trouble with that is that I was posting very much tongue in cheek, except for the part where I agreed with Gary that there are other ways a compact could have got onto the island. But if you don't like the idea that Petty Officer Kowalski needed a layer of make up then who am I to quibble.  ::) 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2012, 02:58:26 AM »

I think we actually have three firearms at the 7 site as we have found shell casings for .30 cal, .45 cal, and .22 cal, as well as one .45 bullet I found in 2007.  We also have a .303 casing from up by the village.

We know that Gallagher had a Colt .22 Woodsman automatic pistol, so that helps to explain the .22s.  We also have interview recollections from at least one former Coastie who remembered wandering through the woods with a buddy plinking at things, including putting a hole in the water tank, which later turned into an issue when the islanders complained to the CO, and they were sent out to fix it.  His description was pretty much that they took the trail into the woods from the beach, and wandered through popping off shots at birds etc as they went, and the distribution of .30 cal shells supports that as it is distributed throughout the site and into the woods beyond, and not concentrated into any one area as it would be if they were using it as a rife range.

I also believe that the interviews support the ban between fraternizing with the natives, and indicates that contact between the two populations was pretty tightly controlled.

What troubles me about this thread is that we have evidence that fraternization was not condoned, and personal recollections from former Guardsmen that it wasn't allowed or didn't happen, yet Gary and Malcolm have veered off into the wildly unsupported "speculative fantasy" that they so strenuously object to in other threads such as the post loss radio signals, which they reject as being not credible because there is no "proof" that they directly linked to Amelia.

At least TIGHAR is following evidence that there are in fact a couple of known missing persons in the area, the fact that there was a castaway on the island somewhere down on that end, possibly a female, and the fact that the castaway seems to have had in their possession a former US Navy sextant box of the type Fred Noonan was known to carry with him on the Clippers, etc etc, so at least we have a reasonable line of thinking to link the various facts together into a hypotheses as to what happened.

What facts do you have to support the thought that the 7 site was a love nest?  None that I can tell.  Your story is all full of supposition "would haves" and "should haves", and it flies in the face of the available evidence. 

I'd like to see you guys apply your own standards of "proof" to your own "speculative fantasies" regarding your thoughts about the 7 site.

Andrew
When I raised the possibility that the "makeup" could have come from contacts between the coasties and the local women the response was basically "oh no, that could never have happened, it would have been a violation of regulations." ROF LOL

I then remembered that it was also a violation of regulations (called statutory rape) for young guys to knock up their high school sweethearts so I guess that never happens either. And the possible punishment for statutory rape is much more severe than any for violating a Coast Guard order to avoid the local ladies. I mentioned the TV show about all the navy guys lined up to use the whore houses in Honolulu and they were also violating regulations, didn't seem to slow them down none. Young, testosterone soaked, men violate these kinds of laws and regulations all the time. And I am certain that taking an M1 out in the woods was also a violation of regulations so, guess what, in the military, regulations do get violated.

I asked a friend of mine, who flew a B-24 and was based on Moratai Island in the Celebes Sea between New Guinea and Borneo, if men on his base had contact with the local women. He said: "A couple of days after we arrived on Moratai I went for a walk with one of my crew to see what we could find. We only got as far as the base perimeter where we were stopped. 'Just where do you two think you're going, don't you know, the whole island is crawling with Japs!'" If I remember correctly, there were no Japs on Gardner.

The one thing we know for certain about Earhart's compact is that it is not on Gardner because it is safely tucked away at Purdue. Unless you are speculating that she carried a duplicate with her, is there evidence of this? And then your theory on the provenance of the makeup is that Earhart left other useful stuff in the plane, like parachutes, but made sure she kept her makeup kit with her to the very end so that she could freshen up for the photographer when she got rescued. But, if you are so certain that there is no other possible explanation for the makeup, other than that it was brought there by Earhart, then call a press conference and declare the mystery solved, cancel the upcoming expedition and use the money saved to find L'Oiseau Blanc.

gl
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 03:16:27 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2012, 04:40:22 AM »

Gary is asking the right questions and also taking a more realistic approach to the possibility of social interaction between the USCG and the Nikumaroroans.

That is a very good point about Earhart's compact and the surprising lack of trace of useful items that could have been salvaged from the Electra. I am also reminded of her reply declining the invitation to attend dinner at Government House in Darwin because she didn't have any suitable clothes to wear - perhaps also she didn't have any makeup as well? - I'm sure the Administrator would have forgiven her slacks (Darwin in the 1930s was a frontier town). Now if her compact is held by Purdue whose then is the purported "compact" on Nikumaroro, so you see all these nagging questions remain no matter how optimistically some happily multiply the number of compacts Earhart had with her.

That's the problem with artifacts - they exist and rational accurate explanations for their presence have to be found. And I do remind everyone that the fragments of mirror and the fragments of makeup have yet to be accurately traced to the existence of a compact (Amelia's or anyone's) or for that matter scientifically linked as coming from the same item.

Now I know it is really fun to make a leap of faith and say "Wow!! mirror, rouge, wow!!! Amelia's compact!!!!" but that is all it is, a leap of faith and like so much in this hypothesis unsupported by anything other then assumptions based on circumstantial evidence. No matter how many times people try and defend circumstantial evidence it remains simply circumstantial and evidence of nothing except assumption. It rather reminds me of the Atlantean theories I referred to in another thread.   
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 04:43:57 AM by Malcolm McKay »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2012, 09:13:20 AM »

LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2012, 11:08:53 AM »

There's one thing I do know and that Gary's mother had multiple compacts  ;D
I'll tell you one more thing about my mother, she never attempted to fly around the world so she never was forced to limit the weight of makeup on her dressing table. Remember all the reports of Earhart being obsessive about eliminating "unnecessary" items from the plane. Is makeup truly "necessary?"

gl
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Islander Fraternisation?
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2012, 03:39:53 PM »

Quote
The policy is such that a commander can order no contact between his personnel and indiginous peoples in order to maintain "good order" within his organization.

Were under those same orders while building a Haitian Refugee Camp in Suriname.  Too much to lose by violating the order.

LTM,

Don
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