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Author Topic: Reef Dynamics  (Read 21245 times)

richie conroy

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2012, 04:52:00 PM »

We are an echo of the past


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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2012, 12:27:54 PM »

Hi Ric,
If the plane landed as I believe on the reef shelf.  It would seem it would have been taxied as close to the beach as possible during the low tide period on arrival.  This would have decreased the high tide exposure and further prevented movement of the 7500+- pound object to tidal actions as no current exist on the reef shelf.  After coming to a stop the tail assembly quite proably took on some water leaving the cockpit and wings high and dry to the 54 inch high tide effect especially if it was closer to a shore position.  Additionally any movement by wave force would have further moved the plane toward shore not out to sea.  This exposure from 1 July to the morning of 9 July, 1937 when the Navy overflight occured begs to suggest the plane was in fact proably moved or the 55 foot wing span shinny metel aircraft would have been spotted much as shown in your presentation "Where is the Electra"! 

I hope on your next survey a shore party will have use of metal detectors in searching the highest point or points for a rubberized bag which was carried on the plane, that may contain film canisters, an octant and a sextant.  The odds are much less for locating the plane.

Best Wishes!
FN
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2012, 01:24:04 PM »

Interesting points Harold which made me go back through the tighar files to find this image. I was wondering, just for arguments sake the dark shadow in the image was the Electra, check the scale of it compared to the super-imposed one in the image, it doesn't stand out as much as I thought it would. looks quite small in fact. I believe the search planes were a lot lower though. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
This must be the place
 
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 01:46:25 PM »

Harold's post and the image Jeff posted got me thinking.  If the Electra did land on the reef flat, at some point AE and FN would likely have tried to get off the reef onto the island proper.  Everything I've read on this site tells me to that picking your way across the reef at anything except dead low tide is extremely difficult if not downright dangerous.  Given that fact, what is/would be the "path of least resistance" our castaways might follow to get to the beach, skirting the holes and deep valleys that are more prevelant inshore of the reef.  Wherever this path hits the beach might be a good starting point for Harold's idea of a search for "camp zero" (assuming wind and wave from 75 years of storms haven't altered the shoreline or piled-up debris too high to make any search very much more unlikely to turn up anything significant.
Bill Mangus
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2012, 02:46:28 PM »

I hope on your next survey a shore party will have use of metal detectors in searching the highest point or points for a rubberized bag which was carried on the plane, that may contain film canisters, an octant and a sextant.

I don't think we have a comprehensive map of every part of Niku that TIGHAR has surveyed with metal detectors, but I'm pretty sure they have covered the ground closest to the suggested landing site more than once.

So, of course, did the colonists on the island, albeit without benefit of using metal detectors.

I'm moderately confident that there is not a rubberized bag sitting on or near the surface, full of any-idiot artifacts; if it ever was there, some idiot has walked off with it.  That said, there has been discussion of having another go at Nutiran, searching for "camp zero."  That won't happen during the 2012 expedition, which will be fully preoccupied with the deep-water work.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2012, 04:52:12 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2012, 05:28:27 AM »

I was at a loose end this morning so, with nothing better to do I went through the ROV footage again. The object was to find anything that looks as though it is alive, coral, fish, polyps, sponges, crustaceans, molluscs etc...
Apart from some brown stuff wrapped around the wire/rope there is nothing at all that shows any signs of life, no fish, nothing. Just piles of coral rubble and white sediment. Even at depths of 1000 metres there is usually living creatures, living coral, seaweed, plant life etc... Here, there is nothing.
Any one have any ideas as to why the reef at this particular location is so desolate, there is absolutely nothing. Is it something to do with seamounts or, just this one?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2012, 07:12:06 AM »

I was at a loose end this morning so, with nothing better to do I went through the ROV footage again. The object was to find anything that looks as though it is alive, coral, fish, polyps, sponges, crustaceans, molluscs etc. ...

Any one have any ideas as to why the reef at this particular location is so desolate, there is absolutely nothing. Is it something to do with seamounts or, just this one?

Niku has suffered some "reef bleaching" since 2002.  It may be that the ROV footage was focused on one of the damaged areas.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2012, 08:21:10 AM »

Jeff, 

beg to differ and can't find the post but I posted a spot of a i valve shell (ok could be a dead un) in the footage and suggested it as something to help ID size.

Didn't add a time stamp but there was one in shot.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 08:22:51 AM by Chris Johnson »
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Reef Dynamics
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »

The reef did suffer during the warming of 2002, and was considerably less robust in 2007 than what we saw in 2001, but in our opinion had largely recovered by 2010.  I don't think this is the reason for the lack of wildlife in the video.

I think the lack of things to see is a function of four things, one the ROV is being operated by a human who is selectively looking close in at the reef face in hopes of seeing man made things instead of wildlife, and second that the ROV itself, being a strange object, tended to cause the wildlife to move away, and third, the depths where the ROV was operating there is less wildlife to be seen, and fourth is the footage that has been made available seems to focus on the reef face not wildlife.

I know that we did see some interesting critters in the video that was shot by the ROV, one that we had a very hard time identifying that had the head of a shark and the body of an eel (we thought it might even be a new species), so there definitely is some footage of wildlife out there, but I don't know that it is available.  I don't know how many hours of ROV footage there is but it is likely over 100 hours, so it is a huge amount of video.

Andrew

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