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Author Topic: Water in the Lifeboat  (Read 49823 times)

Brad Beeching

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Water in the Lifeboat
« on: April 06, 2012, 01:39:50 PM »

It has been proposed here that the castaways may have been able to use whatever water remained in the casks at the Norwich City cache. It would seem to be reasonable to assume that the water in the casks or the tanks from the lifeboat would remain potable. However, it appears as though this would be extremely improbable due to the conditions at the time. There are a host of pathogenic microorganisms that must be neutralized for water to be considered “safe”. These organisms include: bacteria, viruses and parasitic protozoa. In modern water/wastewater treatment there are three principal pathogens that must be removed from the water before it is considered “safe” Giardia Lamblia, Cryptosporidiosis and E Coli. There are a host of others, but these are the principal organisms that are focused on in the US. There are several ways to disinfect drinking water: by Filtration, Chlorination, UV, to name a few. As far as I have been able to find, the casks were filled on the Norwich City. According to International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea the modern requirement is for the fresh water to be refilled every month in each lifeboat. Did the crew of the N.C. perform to a similar requirement? How was water purified on board? In modern times, purified, properly stored water can last in a potable condition for about a year. You will see canned emergency water out there but it will have an expiration date (or should have). In the conditions that exist on Niku in a wooden cask, equatorial temperatures, exposed to sunlight, seawater and storms? If much at all remained after 8 years you can safely be assured that it was not potable strait out of the cask. If they boiled it, then filtered it through a densely woven cloth and then passed it back and forth between receptacles to aerate the water, you might make it reasonably safe. Was that what the castaway was doing at the Seven Site? If it were AE/FN that seemingly ransacked the Norwich City cache  is there any evidence left? Has the cache been found by Tighar?
Brad

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« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 02:22:57 PM by Brad Beeching »
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 02:21:13 PM »

Thanks Brad, clears a few questions and posses some more.

You are now open to Chris's "stupid questions" that help me to understand more.

Would Boiling only not do for the bacteria and protoza type bacteria?

If these organisms grew in the water would they also have a 'sell by date' and not die off?
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 03:05:43 PM »

Boiling the water may or may not kill all the bacteria. Certainly will reduce the numbers by a significant amount, even by EPA regulation treated wastewater and drinking water has a residual amount of contaminates present. I was not able to find out how fresh water was treated on the NC. Any squids err... navy men out there might answer that question. Was the Klineshmitt Still in common use when the NC was built? The problem with storing water for long periods is that the residual organisms continue to grow and multiply, eventually using up the available oxygen in the water. At that point the organisms begin to change from aerobic (oxygen needing) to anaerobic (not needing oxygen) the result is black, stagnant water. Also a point to consider is contamination by salt water, hydrocarbons, contaminates leaching out of the container the water is stored in, the list goes on. Was it possible that some water remained usable? Certainly. Was it probable I wouldn't bet on it. Look closely at the condition of the lifeboat, see how the gunwales are pushed down? Look under the gunwale about two strakes, the wood has popped out strait, I'll bet her back is broken and the bottom has flattened out against the sand. If she had ballast tanks installed, I wonder if they have been opened with the strain? If they were used to store fresh water (some types of lifeboats did) did the tank break? If the top broke exposing the water in the tank to the atmosphere, the water would become infested with all the above and probably a whole lot more. A castaway would have to find a fork to ingest anything coming out of THAT tank!

ps I just found this : Risk Analysis of Shipboard Drinking Water
Brad

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« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 03:24:24 PM by Brad Beeching »
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 03:10:15 PM »

OK but what about water in a container with an "air tight2 seal? I beleive that water was stored that way and was part of the NC supplies.
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 03:31:47 PM »

Being in an "airtight" container merely slows the process, if the water has enough residual contaminates in it, they will grow. And something I forgot to mention, as these organisms use up the oxygen and food available... they become canabalistic and eat each other... still thirsty?

Brad
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 03:35:26 PM »

OK, throws a very wide ball to the out field, what about water that has been underground in a aquifa (sp) that is bottled for consumption by people with too much money and not enough brains?????
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 04:01:06 PM »

GroundWater from an uncontaminated aquifer is actually sterile. It is actually harder to purify groundwater than surface water because most freshwater plants use some kind of coagulation and filtering, followed by disinfection. Surface sources are inherently loaded with all kinds of material that coagulates easily and thus can be filtered out easily. The less material, the harder (and more expensive) it is to clean groundwater. Does that make sense? If you live in a small town and your water bill seems to be getting expensive, chances are you are getting your water from a groundwater source and not surface water.

Brad
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 04:08:52 PM »

Sooo what would make casked water (canned or stored) contaminated over "groundwater"that is uncominted?
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 04:19:53 PM »

Has the cache been found by Tighar?

No.

I believe that the Norwich City article summarizes pretty much everything that TIGHAR has discovered about the Norwich City, so far.
LTM,

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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 04:22:37 PM »

Cache or caches? We have NC camp 0, then they move the camp, then with the rescue boats they move again to camp 'Z', the final camp.  Could we have 3 caches of supplies?
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richie conroy

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 04:25:20 PM »

would the toilet hopper on plane carry fresh water or was it a commode type toilet ?

i have goggled about it only to find pics thou ?
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2012, 04:27:07 PM »

The problem with storing water for long periods is that the residual organisms continue to grow and multiply, eventually using up the available oxygen in the water. At that point the organisms begin to change from aerobic (oxygen needing) to anaerobic (not needing oxygen) the result is black, stagnant water.
Yep, that is why they carried beer on long voyages in sailing ships.
gl
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 04:30:11 PM »

Well, as stated earlier, the caskes were filled (or should have been) filled on board the Norwich City. If you read Risk Analysis of Shipboard Drinking Water
they point out several concerns about polluted water sources. Remember there wasn't a Safe Drinking Water Act in 1929. To what standard did the crew manufacture drinking water? What was it stored in before being put in the casks or tanks? If the crew didn't clean out the fresh water bunkers, or didn't do a thorough job of it, any number of ways can contaminate a water source. Maybe the cook was a slob and didn't wash or maybe somebody had a grudge? As stated above, even with our modern disinfecting methods some organisms and contaminates survive. Thats all it takes

Brad
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2012, 04:31:30 PM »

would the toilet hopper on plane carry fresh water or was it a commode type toilet ?

i have goggled about it only to find pics thou ?

No disrespect Richie but go get a mug full from your loo and down it on one!!!!
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richie conroy

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Re: Water in the Lifeboat
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2012, 04:34:39 PM »

no u dont get what i mean, was the toilet a cistern style were u could flush it or was it a commode

 
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