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Author Topic: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland  (Read 420304 times)

Erik

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2012, 03:44:53 PM »


Erik
I don't know what she left behind or didn't leave behind.  It pales to insignifance when compared to taking off w/o knowing absolutely that her RDF was working and/or that she knew how to communicate with Itasca's RDF.

I hear ya.  My intentions weren't to disagree with the RDF working correctly or not, or to minimize it's importance.  I agree with your point 100%.  The issue with the gear being left behind can certainly co-exist with RDF issue working or not.

In keeping true to the thread, I was simply adding more evidence to wether or not the parachutes were on the flight.  If we have documented evidence of abandoning other types of survival equipment, that certainly add credibility to abanonding the parachutes and raft too.  Or least I would think?

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Erik

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2012, 03:51:56 PM »


Does that mean that you also agree it is likely she left behind some of her emergency/rescue gear too?
NO!
Go back and read what I wrote before, where did that idea come from in the first place? Her husband, interviewed on July 2nd, stated that she carried a life raft, see my prior post.

gl

Wasn't specifically talking about the raft.  Or even parachutes for that matter.  But, wether or not you think she left any (some) survival gear behind at all?  That would include food, batteries, flashlights, clothing, etc. 

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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2012, 03:56:58 PM »

NO!
Go back and read what I wrote before, where did such an idea come from in the first place? Her husband, interviewed on July 2nd, stated that she carried her emergency equipment, see my prior post.
Putnam said:
"'There was a two-man rubber lifeboat aboard the plane, together with life belts, flares, a Very pistol and a large yellow signal kite that could be flown above the plane or the liferaft.'
Putnam said his wife had planned to take emergency food rations and plenty of water on the hazardous flight, the most dangerous on her trip around the world." New York Herald Tribune, July 3, 1937, page 1.

So no, I don't believe she left any of her emergency equipment behind. As Putnan said, this leg was the most dangerous on her trip around the world, the very reason to carry the emergency equipment in the first place.

gl
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 04:00:42 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2012, 06:14:06 PM »


Gary
 "...that at this point they abandoned that careful plan and proceed without the second method, the RDF, tested to be operational."

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that after the two days delay for repairs and chronometer  setting,  "get homeitis" set in  and the idea of a further delay to check out the RDF and fix it just didn't compute.  Call it over- confidence, arrogance, stupidity, all of the above, who knows?

Hi Harry. Can you refresh me on how we know her RDF wasn't working when she left for Howland?  Did she radio Lae to say it wasn't working?  I believe she didn't communicate that info to anyone. She had flown a test flight t Lae and could not get RDF to work and she assumed she was too close to Lae. But in the final few transmissions she is sending messages that suggest she thinks RDF should work.  Are we just speculating it was broken when she took off based on the test flight?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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richie conroy

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2012, 07:30:07 PM »

thought would post this article that is on Tighars photo's on facebook



i think i have read it on purdue aswell somewere will try finding it  :)
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2012, 08:00:27 PM »


Hi Harry. Can you refresh me on how we know her RDF wasn't working when she left for Howland?  Did she radio Lae to say it wasn't working?  I believe she didn't communicate that info to anyone. She had flown a test flight t Lae and could not get RDF to work and she assumed she was too close to Lae. But in the final few transmissions she is sending messages that suggest she thinks RDF should work.  Are we just speculating it was broken when she took off based on the test flight?
What post "test flight" statements can you point to to support your belief that they had somehow determined that the RDF was working? And how do you think they made that determination?

gl
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2012, 08:16:02 PM »


IRV
The Chater Report said that she tried the RDF on the plane's test flight  by attempting to pick up the Lae station and was unable to get a null.  When she landed she said that she "assumed" that the reason was that she was too close to the antenna (Lae antenna). She took off next AM.

As I always say when I mention this point, either the RDF wasn't working properly or she wasn't operating it properly.  Either way, when the successful completion of the leg depends on the RDF, you don't takeoff without knowing absolutely that it works, no assumptions.  She took off without knowing.
I am not aware of any radio transmissions in which she mentions that she was attempting to acquire the Itasca's RDF beacon.  Quite the contrary, she asked for the Itasca to take a bearing on her.  And the equipment she had on board wasn't capable of sending a signal at a frequency that the Itasca could aquire and follow as she flew.

What could she have done?
     1. During the test flight,Tuned the RDF into another station (Rabaul, perhaps) to see if the RDF worked ok.  If it worked, ok.  If it didn't work, then FIX IT before taking off.
     2. After takeoff, tuned the RDF to the Lae station as she flew away to see if the RDF was working. If it worked, ok.  If not, turn back and FIX IT.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #232 on: February 24, 2012, 09:23:20 PM »


Hi Harry. Can you refresh me on how we know her RDF wasn't working when she left for Howland?  Did she radio Lae to say it wasn't working?  I believe she didn't communicate that info to anyone. She had flown a test flight t Lae and could not get RDF to work and she assumed she was too close to Lae. But in the final few transmissions she is sending messages that suggest she thinks RDF should work.  Are we just speculating it was broken when she took off based on the test flight?
What post "test flight" statements can you point to to support your belief that they had somehow determined that the RDF was working? And how do you think they made that determination?

gl
Gary, I didn't say I believed they determined the RDF was working. I said I believed she was talking like it was working. But Harry cleared that up. She wasn't using her RDF (that we know of). 

Harry, thanks for the reminder.  I'll reread the Chater report again.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #233 on: February 24, 2012, 11:09:48 PM »


IRV
No problem, sometimes it is hard wrapping our minds around the details.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #234 on: February 25, 2012, 12:01:06 AM »


IRV
The Chater Report said that she tried the RDF on the plane's test flight  by attempting to pick up the Lae station and was unable to get a null.  When she landed she said that she "assumed" that the reason was that she was too close to the antenna (Lae antenna). She took off next AM.

As I always say when I mention this point, either the RDF wasn't working properly or she wasn't operating it properly.  Either way, when the successful completion of the leg depends on the RDF, you don't takeoff without knowing absolutely that it works, no assumptions.  She took off without knowing.
I am not aware of any radio transmissions in which she mentions that she was attempting to acquire the Itasca's RDF beacon.  Quite the contrary, she asked for the Itasca to take a bearing on her.  And the equipment she had on board wasn't capable of sending a signal at a frequency that the Itasca could aquire and follow as she flew.

What could she have done?
     1. During the test flight,Tuned the RDF into another station (Rabaul, perhaps) to see if the RDF worked ok.  If it worked, ok.  If it didn't work, then FIX IT before taking off.
     2. After takeoff, tuned the RDF to the Lae station as she flew away to see if the RDF was working. If it worked, ok.  If not, turn back and FIX IT.
  1. What makes you think that there were radio beacons that Earhart could tune in to test her RDF? I suspect that there were no radio beacons at all in that part of the world in 1937. Remember Balfour had to make an arrangement with another station in order for that other station to transmit a signal so that Balfour could conduct the ground test of the RDF the day before the airborne radio test.

Even if there were radio beacons, during that time frame, and for a long time after that (and probably even today) ground radio navigational facilities did not operate continuously but were "on demand," needing prior coordination or a radio call from the plane in flight to ask for the NDB to be turned on for a period of time. I have attached several examples from my 1978 Flight Information Publication (FLIP) to illustrated this. Note the asterisk in front of the radio beacon frequencies. The asterisk tells you that operation is not continuous and that you have to check the entry for that beacon in the facilities directory to find out the restrictions on its operation. There are two Christmas Islands. For the first one the directory states "48 hours prior notice required." For the second Christmas Island the note states "Hours available- when aircraft is expected, from Estimated Time of Arrival minus 2 hours to Actual Time of Departure plus 1 hour." For Kure the note states "on request." There is no record that I know of that Earhart contacted any other station to request a radio beacon be turned on for her test.

  2. There is no indication that Earhart tested her RDF with the Lae station on the flight to Howland, she never requested Balfour to send continuously for a while or to give a "long count" which would have been necessary for a RDF test. Also remember, Balfour was transmitting on 6540 kcs which was also above the range of Earhart's RDF so she couldn't make a test just on Balfour's transmissions anyway. And, according to Ric, Earhart couldn't even hear the signals from Lae because she had lost her belly receiving antenna.

gl
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 10:45:28 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #235 on: February 25, 2012, 05:41:42 AM »


IRV
No problem, sometimes it is hard wrapping our minds around the details.

That's very true Harry. There are so many details in this mystery to keep track of. Plus all the speculation. Keeping the fact from fiction is critical.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #236 on: February 25, 2012, 05:59:25 AM »

Gary

Here is a quote from the Chater report. "At 6.35 a.m., July 1st, Miss Earhart carried out a 30 minute air test of the machine when two way telephone communication was established between the ground station at Lae and the plane. The Operator was requested to send a long dash while Miss Earhart endeavoured to get a minimum on her direction finder. On landing Miss Earhart informed us that she had been unable to obtain a minimum and that she considered this was because the Lae station was too pwerful and too close."

Do you dispute this direct report from an eye witness to the events?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #237 on: February 25, 2012, 08:23:49 AM »

AE tried to use her DF on approach to Howland, according to the radio log.  She said she could not get a minimum, meaning she could not determine what direction the signal was coming from.  This also tells us the DF loop and receiver worked well enough to receive, if not capable of telling direction on 7500, the frequency she was listening to from Itasca at that moment.  The unsuccessful Lae test was on 6540, which was also too high.  She obviously didn't understand the loop's frequency limitation.
I think it is important to keep in mind that she could only receive on one frequency at a time, and that it took some time to change frequencies.  When she reports that she hears Itasca, she's transmitting on 3105, and listening on 7500.
Had she switched her transmitter to 500, Itasca might have been able to get a DF bearing.  She could transmit on 500, 3105 and 6210.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #238 on: February 25, 2012, 10:29:33 AM »


John O
"AE tried to use her DF on approach to Howland, according to the radio log.  She said she could not get a minimum, meaning she could not determine what direction the signal was coming from"

Where in the radio log after the 0612/14 Itasca (0544 Howland, 1744 GCT) "...about 200 miles oout" does it say anything about AE trying her RDF?
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #239 on: February 25, 2012, 10:47:46 AM »

Gary

Here is a quote from the Chater report. "At 6.35 a.m., July 1st, Miss Earhart carried out a 30 minute air test of the machine when two way telephone communication was established between the ground station at Lae and the plane. The Operator was requested to send a long dash while Miss Earhart endeavoured to get a minimum on her direction finder. On landing Miss Earhart informed us that she had been unable to obtain a minimum and that she considered this was because the Lae station was too pwerful and too close."

Do you dispute this direct report from an eye witness to the events?
I thought my prior post was pretty clear since I mentioned the airborne test in the first paragraph. To make it clearer, I have added the underlined words to my previous post.

"There is no indication that Earhart tested her RDF with the Lae station on the flight to Howland, "

gl
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