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Author Topic: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map  (Read 26873 times)

Jeff Scott

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Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« on: May 22, 2011, 03:36:16 PM »

I have a question on this map showing an overview of Nikumaroro and potential Earhart-related evidence found there.



This image appears primarily on the page Place names on Nikumaroro.  The item that puzzles me is the reference to an engine recovered from the reef and taken to Kanton.  I was under the impression that story had been debunked, as summarized on the Kanton Island article:

Quote
"Subsequent investigation revealed the story to be, although well intentioned, almost certainly apocryphal"

Is the image simply outdated?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2011, 03:42:26 PM »

Is the image simply outdated?

Yep. Nessie isn't on there either.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2011, 03:55:31 PM »

I have a question on this map showing an overview of Nikumaroro and potential Earhart-related evidence found there.



This image appears primarily on the page Place names on Nikumaroro.  The item that puzzles me is the reference to an engine recovered from the reef and taken to Kanton.  I was under the impression that story had been debunked, as summarized on the Kanton Island article:

Quote
"Subsequent investigation revealed the story to be, although well intentioned, almost certainly apocryphal"

Is the image simply outdated?

My bad.  Any Day Now I could work on a replacement that only shows place names ...
LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2011, 08:44:24 PM »

The list of stuff we've found at the Seven site is now too long to put on a map anyway.
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david alan atchason

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2011, 09:36:22 PM »

This is a case of a picture worth a thousand words. I have never seen this map before. It answers a lot of questions for me. I searched  "Loran Station" and got more info. It seems the C. G. men did have opportunities to visit the rest of the island, maybe not regularly, of course. I wonder if maybe they could have walked the short distance to the nearby clearing where the artifacts were found, and used it as a getaway spot, perhaps to gather to cook up some local birds or turtles to relieve the monotony of the military food? I don't believe there was a high fence around their compound to prevent them from doing this. I picture in those days some of the men having the knowledge to clean & cook some of the local wildlife. This would just give a reason for firepits and the like, would not rule out anybody else using the area, of course. Also, from my military experience they might have been conscientious enough to remove all their debris, beer cans, cigarette butts, or whatever, so there would be no sign that would identify the C.G. as using this area. I'm sure this topic has been raised somewhere in the forum, but I have not seen it.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 06:13:38 AM »

The Coasties did visit the Seven Site on at least a few occasions (we're not sure how many). In fact, the ten-year process that resulted in locating the site and identifying it as the place where Gallagher found the bones began with a story told by a Coast Guard veteran.  See the ancient TIGHAR Tracks article "Nor any Drop to Drink".

Over the years we've interviewed as many of the surviving members of Coast Guard Unit 92 as we could find and we have a large collection of documents, photos and stories. Based on what they've told us and what we've found at the site, their activity at the site consisted mostly of some impromptu target practice. They certainly didn't worry about picking up their trash - brass cartridges, broken crockery and pieces of vacuum tubes used as targets.   No tales or evidence of any Coast Guard picnics.  They occasionally caught fish from the lagoon and lobster from the reef (eaten at the main base) but they do not seem to have eaten birds, turtles, small fish, or clams.

Like many if not most archaeological sites, the Seven Site has artifacts and other material from several different periods or episodes of occupation. We spend a great deal of time and energy trying to sort them out.
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david alan atchason

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 10:40:32 AM »

Thanks, Ric, for answering my questions. Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner? That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans? I know this is getting away from relevancy, but wouldn't this lack of knowledge tend to dampen any curiosity they might have about any odd piece of possible airplane wreckage they might have found or seen? Which, apparently, they did not find or see anyway.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 10:52:37 AM »

Thanks, Ric, for answering my questions. Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner? That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans? I know this is getting away from relevancy, but wouldn't this lack of knowledge tend to dampen any curiosity they might have about any odd piece of possible airplane wreckage they might have found or seen? Which, apparently, they did not find or see anyway.

Coasties:

Floyd Kilts published an account in 1960 that has proven to have some grains of truth in it.

John Mims flew supply flights for the station.

"Prior to the interviews on Funafuti, the only account of a plane wreck on the island was from former PBY pilot John Mims (see TIGHAR Tracks Vol. 11, No. 3 “Catch Of The Day”) who told of seeing an airplane control cable being used as heavy-duty fishing tackle during a visit to Nikumaroro in 1944 or ’45. The Gilbertese fishermen told him that the cable had come from a plane that been there when they first came to the island. When Mims asked where the plane was now, they just shrugged" TIGHAR Tracks, 13:1.

Emily Sikuli was interviewed by TIGHAR three times about airplane wreckage on Niku.

LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 12:00:03 PM »

Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner?
I don't know. We've only been able to interview about a half dozen of the fifty or so Coasties who were on the island at various times.

That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans?
There were no natives on Nikumaroro.  Everyone there came from someplace else.  According to Kilts (see link in Marty's post above), at least some of the colonists were aware that Earhart had been on the island and, in fact, shared that information with a Coastie (Kilts).
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Alex Fox

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 03:45:05 PM »

That Kilts article is fascinating.
Quote
Next month (Kilts) will fly to the Philippines to visit his daughter and, perhaps, stop off at Gardner in the middle of nowhere and nothing to hunt for an airplane and do a little theory proving of his own.
Did he ever do this, or is that a joke?  It seems a little ludicrous.  Wouldn't he need a float plane, unless he wanted to meet the same demise?  I guess it would be hard to know if he ever did try to search around again without interviewing him.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2011, 05:10:07 PM »

That Kilts article is fascinating.
Quote
Next month (Kilts) will fly to the Philippines to visit his daughter and, perhaps, stop off at Gardner in the middle of nowhere and nothing to hunt for an airplane and do a little theory proving of his own.
Did he ever do this, or is that a joke?  It seems a little ludicrous.  Wouldn't he need a float plane, unless he wanted to meet the same demise?  I guess it would be hard to know if he ever did try to search around again without interviewing him.

The operative phrase is "in the middle of nowhere."  You don't just "stop off" there without a fair expenditure of time and money.  Have you read any of TIGHAR's expedition reports? 



It's not like looking around a shopping mall or even a small town. 
LTM,

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »

That is one weird map. The Phoenix Islands are north of Samoa and closer to Howland than the Gilberts.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2011, 09:47:42 PM »

That is one weird map. The Phoenix Islands are north of Samoa and closer to Howland than the Gilberts.

Probably due to the kind of projection used.  You can see the curved longitude lines, as if you were looking at a globe.  That's why the flight path looks curved, too, I think.  I got it from "TIGHARS on Tinian," FWIW.

Here is one from the the CIA.

LTM,

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« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 09:54:04 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Jeff Scott

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 09:59:12 PM »

My bad.  Any Day Now I could work on a replacement that only shows place names ...

I agree a place-name map of its own is probably the better way to go.  An updated version of the evidence map would also be valuable since I've found it one of the more powerful methods to summarize the "case for Nikumaroro" in one simple diagram.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Engine recovery on Nikumaroro map
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 07:42:09 AM »

I agree a place-name map of its own is probably the better way to go.  

One of your wishes is my command--because I wish it, too!



Quote
An updated version of the evidence map would also be valuable since I've found it one of the more powerful methods to summarize the "case for Nikumaroro" in one simple diagram.

The best stuff so far has come out of the Village and the 7 site.  The shoe parts found in 1991 are in limbo right now.

This is an updated evidence map, I believe:



DOH!  And an exceedingly clear map with placenames:



That's the trouble with the TIGHAR website--it's hard to keep track of what has already been done!
LTM,

           Marty
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« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 07:52:51 AM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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