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Author Topic: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub  (Read 27927 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2011, 09:26:00 AM »

... But I've found the money for ten trips to Nikumaroro without surrendering control of the organization or the project. It is my hope and intention to do so again.

I wonder whether it is conceivable that one could partner with someone with deep pockets (and a thoroughly exellent submarine) without "surrending control of the organization or the project."

There is a lot of territory to search.

It seems to me that Virgin Oceanic has the kind of gizmo that should be good at doing that kind of search.

"One observation is worth 10,000 expert opinions."

In this case, it seems that you have decided in advance of investigation not to talk with Branson on the grounds that, being wealthy and having an ego as big as all outdoors, that the only way to cooperate with him would be to surrender control to him.

You may be right.  But it seems to me to be a small risk to actually talk to the guy about what TIGHAR has accomplished and seeks to accomplish in its next expedition.  Perhaps the contact with him would confirm your prejudice; perhaps not.  Strange things do happen. 
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2011, 09:29:45 AM »

Branson's gizmo is not appropriate to our needs. We're actively working some better possibilities.
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2011, 06:27:33 PM »

Ric,
It's called a "joint venture".
Ted Campbell
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2011, 07:09:21 PM »

I think that Ric knows what he is looking for and right now it's not a partner like Branson. Sir Richard, like many rich and/or famous men have huge egos. Ric has been chasing this mystery down for many years. To be this determined he needs to be there at the end. Standing in front of TIGHAR as it's spokesman announcing the mystery is solved. He has found the right way to fund expeditions and make significant finds. It's like hunting for a diamond ring in a giant landfill site. You work at it for a big chunk of your life. Then some guy wanders by that hasn't shown any interest before and finds it. Who do the press go to? Who gets the prize?  Ric doesn't need lessons or advice about partnering from us.  He has been partnering with the public and every TIGHAR member who ever joined and the corporate sponsors.  He needs decent funding to get the right underwater search gear.  The electra is down there.  My two cents.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2011, 07:11:56 PM »

Thank you sir.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2011, 10:54:08 AM »

Not to coin a phrase, but Ric "doesn't want to get on the cart."

Darn, there I go again ...  ;D

P.S. - the next check is in the mail.
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 11:08:21 AM by Monty Fowler »
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Bill Lloyd

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 11:10:21 AM »

...such comments by TIGHAR that "we won't go hat-in-hand to deep pockets attached to big egos" does not help the cause as some people would consider those comments offensive.  If TIGHAR is as under funded as they say, then perhaps a well organized fund raising approach to viable investors is in order.

Thank you for your advice.  Perhaps your experience as a fund raiser has been different from mine.  I've been the principal fund raiser for this organization for 26 years.  I won't say that it has been easy and I don't think I've been very good at it. There has never been as much money as we've really needed to do everything we've wanted to do. But I can assure you that I've mounted countless well organized fund raising approaches to viable contributors (we can't solicit "investors").  I've made the mistake of accepting big donations from deep pockets with big egos.  I can show you the scars.  And yes, I've offended people and will undoubtedly do so again. Perhaps I have offended you. But I've found the money for ten trips to Nikumaroro without surrendering control of the organization or the project. It is my hope and intention to do so again.

I have not been offended. I am just making observations on what I see. It is just not good business policy to go around offending people that you do not really know and who could possibly benefit your endeavors.

You obviously have had success in funding the ten trips that you have made to Nikumaroro and the evidence that you have collected is very good. It is certainly not easy to organize and carry out an expedition to some remote island in the ocean as you have done ten times. 

It appears that more funding would have allowed the expeditions more suitable transportation to the island and once there, faster transportation of the work parties in and around the work sites. The impression that I get from the photos and videos is that a large amount of time and energy was spend riding in motor boats and hiking with lunch boxes and equipment to and from work sites. Helicopter transportation would be very advantageous.

You should not be overly concerned about surrendering control of your organization. TIGHAR is a registered corporation in the State of Delaware. Enter file number 2053299 to see details. The registered agent listed is Richard E. Gillespie which is you of course. Unless you decide to change the charter, then you will remain in control.

As a non profit corporation, you are allowed to receive grants and donations.  Investors cannot be taken on in the traditional sense because you do not sell stock and have shareholders, however, investors can participate in a non equity basis.  All donations to a non profit are tax deductible.  I am sure that you already know all of this, just my observations. 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2011, 10:56:50 PM »

I'm struggling with your points Bill. Are you suggesting that Sir Richard Branson would spend his time and money to assist with the search for the Electra and agree NOT to seek publicity if it was found? That somehow Ric would be able to step up and take the credit because he is the registered agent of TIGHAR?  Have you watched a super bowl game? Who gets the credit for the win?  I don't think the owner gets interviewed first. The player who got the team into the winning position does.  Then the coach. Then maybe the owner, but by then everyone has headed to the bathroom or changed the channel. The owner can't tell the media who to interview. If Ric agreed to take assistance from Sir Richard there would be strings attached. Ric has told you that he has done this before and has the scars to show for it.  He is working from past experience.  What makes you believe Branson would be any different?  Look at Sir Richards record of achievements. Very impressive and I think he deserves his knighthood for all his marvelous adventures. But every interview at the conclusion of his adventures is a video with him in the forefront talking about "his" success. Not standing behind someone else and listening. Even AE wanted the spotlight.  She got it. Not the people who got her there.

BTW. Suggesting what "could" have been done on past expeditions is counter productive.  Of course he could have done more research with more funding.  But that's in the past and he admits to not being perfect.  (But who is?) Put it positively and look at how much was done with so little.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Hilary Christine Olson

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2011, 06:45:58 AM »

Just my 2 cents here .The search for unarguable  proof on how  AE & Noonan met her fate has been going on for how many years..74?   There has been multiple theories out there over the years and many folks with deep pockets in the search . I am sure if the interest was there more could have done it on their own $$ without  aid from TIGHAR but they aslso have  other commitments & projects they fund ........................Also  I believe Tighar is not all about glory and,"I told you so," but about  Historic Aircraft Recovery of which The Earhart Project is one of several. TIGHAR has worked hard on this and when the ,"smoking gun " is disccovered it will be  great to give AE  and FN Peace.
HCO
 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 06:50:01 AM by Hilary Christine Olson »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2011, 07:21:15 AM »

I really didn't mean to start a fight over the Branson submirsible project. TIGHAR, for all its done, is still lacking sufficient funds to do the expeditions that Rics wants to do. I mearly made the suggestion because Branson has the deep pockets, is an adventurer, likes aviation, and was going to be in the area anyway. I havent seen any other group step up to help--Ballard included. My thoughts were certainly well intended towards TIGHAR, Ric, and Amelia.
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2011, 07:41:22 AM »

Well said Hilary.  I believe TIGHAR has been the front runner in "Finding Amelia" and the search for what happened may have been dropped completely without the persistence of Ric and the many TIGHARS to keep pushing. It will be satisfying to them to find that unarguable piece. But as you so rightly point out, it will give peace to AE and FN, and their current relatives, peace of mind in knowing what happened.

To Tom's post.... I don't think it's a fight, but rather a discussion.  Everyone is entitled to express their opinion and when it comes to this mystery there are many.  When something takes so long to solve there is bound to be retracing of steps and rethinking the same points. Over and over. This is healthy dialogue in case something has been missed.  Well intentioned dialogue.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 07:57:00 AM by Irvine John Donald »
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2011, 07:22:53 PM »

I still say a well structured "Joint Venture" with the likes of Branson should be given serious consideration.

If he's in the area he just might make a visit to Niku on his own and if he finds the L10 where would this leave TIGHAR?

Ted
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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2011, 07:54:42 PM »

I still say a well structured "Joint Venture" with the likes of Branson should be given serious consideration.

If he's in the area he just might make a visit to Niku on his own and if he finds the L10 where would this leave TIGHAR?

Ted
I'd guess it would leave TIGHAR about the same place as it would be if the "Joint Venture" was undertaken.  If Mr. Branson finds the Electra it will still prove TIGHAR's theory, and at least some people will realize he wouldn't have known where to look without the work Ric and others have done previously.  The ones who wouldn't take the time to learn the truth are probably not people who care much anyway. 
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Bill Lloyd

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2011, 10:41:13 PM »

Are you suggesting that Sir Richard Branson would spend his time and money to assist with the search for the Electra and agree NOT to seek publicity if it was found?
No, I don' think that is an issue nor should it be an issue.

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That somehow Ric would be able to step up and take the credit because he is the registered agent of TIGHAR? 
Ric has previously stated that he does not want to lose control of his organization. The legal issue is that he is protected by the law in that Branson nor anyone else cannot dissolve the charter, thus Ric remains in control of TIGHAR. Who steps up and takes credit is simply not an issue.

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Have you watched a super bowl game? Who gets the credit for the win?
That is irrelevant in regards to the search for Amelia and Fred.

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Suggesting what "could" have been done on past expeditions is counter productive.
I disagree. Learning from past experiences is a proven principle of good management.



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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Virgin Oceanic & DeepFlight Challenger sub
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2011, 12:07:50 AM »

And your last point Bill is important. "Learning from past experiences is a proven principle of good management". Ric told you he had past experience in dealing with people with big egos and had the scars to prove it. So you agree that as a good manager he should learn from his past experiences and not approach Branson?

"Learning from experience is a proven principle of good management" is correct Bill but I sure get this feeling you don't think Ric is right in this matter.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. But don't get me wrong. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion just as I'm also entitled to mine and Ric to his.

I read these forums and respect everyones opinion.  Read Ric's responses to many of the points in the forums. As the head of TIGHAR he has to be careful in what he says and how he says it. He really doesn't want to offend anyone but also doesn't want to be offended, especially by his own members "second guessing" his decisions. It's not that he just doesn't want to seek help from "big ego" adventurers with deep pockets.  He has done that and it didn't work out. How much clearer does he have to be?

 P.S. After the last few posts I feel like I'm ready to " climb on the cart". In fact Bill may be ready to help me onto it. LOL.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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