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Author Topic: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?  (Read 80987 times)

Tom Swearengen

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #90 on: March 27, 2012, 10:14:13 PM »

Jeff Victor---Andrew and Ric can best answer that question---they have both been there. I'd suspect 2 foot at high tide, but I dont want to guess. Maybe Ric or Andrew and chime in here, although I'll bet they are busy PACKING!!
Lucky Guys
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2012, 04:00:27 AM »

Nessie seems to be located on the reef flat before it drops off into deeper water.  At low tide, there can be as little as just an inch or two of water on the reef flat, I've seen it where there is literally a small waterfall running off the reef edge into the sea.  We've walked out to the edge of the reef many a time, but best on a calm day.

At high tide, there could be as much as 3-4 ft of water on this part of the reef, compounded by waves.  If Nessie were lodged in a hole, only part of the tire would be above reef level.

There has been considerable work on the level of the tides in relation to a parked Electra, complete with graphics, but I seem to be hopelessly inept at searching the TIGHAR material.  Here are links I can find:

Tidal analysis
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/ResearchPapers/Brandenburg/TidalStudy/TidalStudy.htm

Graphic of aircraft on reef, with tidal level
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/ResearchPapers/Brandenburg/TidalStudy/reefflat.html

Andrew
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2012, 05:32:22 AM »

hey andrew--with the enhanced pic that was posted----the only way I see the the tire 'could'be visible is if if were inverted, as in upside down. Granted, I think it originally had the tire in a creavass, but if we couls 'see' a tire above the other part of whatever is there, it would almost have to be inverted.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2012, 05:45:00 AM »

Hard to say.  Depends upon the state of the tide which I've not heard any estimate of for that day, and a few other things we don't have access to yet, like the forensic imaging analysis. 

I seriously don't think trying to analyze or enhance the photos off the web will be productive, fun maybe, but not enough resolution, so we're back to seeing bunnies again.

Hopefully a research paper on all of this will be produced soon.

Andrew
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Evan McIntosh

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #94 on: March 28, 2012, 07:06:25 AM »

Has any evidence of FN been found at the seven site? If not why not? Also, why are there so many campfire sites? If I had established one, I would have used that for several days before shifting to another. If AE spent about a week at each campfire site, she would have been alive for approximately 7 weeks I would think.

Evan McIntosh MD, PhD
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #95 on: March 28, 2012, 08:59:29 AM »

Has any evidence of FN been found at the seven site?

That depends on how you interpret the "evidence," such as it is.

Tom King, TIGHAR's lead archeologist, has a wonderful introductory article about the Seven Site.  It probably needs to be updated with information on things found since the first draft of the article.

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If not why not?

There are only so many logical possibilities to answer your question.
  • Maybe Fred was never there.
  • Maybe all Fred artifacts got lost.
  • Maybe the bones were Fred's anyway.
  • Maybe the man's shoe got there because Fred wore it there.
  • Maybe TIGHAR hasn't looked carefully enough where it has looked.
  • Maybe TIGHAR hasn't looked where the Fred evidence is waiting to be found.
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Also, why are there so many campfire sites?

Many visitors over many years?

A ring of fires to keep crabs out?

Crabs attracted to stuff in old fires?

Some strange cooking technique?

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If I had established one, I would have used that for several days before shifting to another.

If I had been Amelia, I would have landed at Howland after switching my DF system from 7500 kcs to 3105 kcs, so that I could hear voice transmissions from the Itasca.  Then we would have worked everything out from there.

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If AE spent about a week at each campfire site, she would have been alive for approximately 7 weeks I would think.

TIGHAR has asked the folks examining the bird and fish bones how many meals they might represent.  Then that has to be added to an estimate of the food value of the clams.  I don't know whether a final report has been written on that question.  My fallible recollection is that the food value, if all the remnants came just from the person who left the bones behind, would not have sustained life for very long.
LTM,

           Marty
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Don Dollinger

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #96 on: March 29, 2012, 03:14:45 PM »

Has any evidence of FN been found at the seven site? If not why not? Also, why are there so many campfire sites? If I had established one, I would have used that for several days before shifting to another. If AE spent about a week at each campfire site, she would have been alive for approximately 7 weeks I would think.

Evan McIntosh MD, PhD

Evan,

If ALL or even a large portion of the fire sites could somehow be attributed to AE then IMHO the purpose of so many would be that it would be very difficult to keep a fire going continuously over a long period of time due to the quantity of fuel (firewood) needed which would also have to be gathered and broken down and the need to spend alot of time tending to it.  I could see starting a fire to cook a meal and then allowing it to go out and then the next evening again having a new fire.  If that was the scenario it is rather puzzling as to why they would be in different places as you would think that she/they would have a central place that was reused for subsequent fires.  I can see them moving the site closer to a wood source like a felled tree or brush pile versus having to haul the wood across the site to the fire.  I can also see the ring of fires as suggested by Marty but again, I am thinking that the amount of energy and wood required for that scenario seems a bit much.  The most logical (which in this endearing mystery doesn't mean much) reason I could think of would be the multiple fires by multiple parties over the last 70 years.

LTM,

Don
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: What was the fate of Fred Noonan, site of camp?
« Reply #97 on: March 29, 2012, 05:49:02 PM »


Jeff, when I mentioned a reference point it was in the context of, where to put the ROV in relation to the newly discovered uncut version of Eric Bevingtons photo which I understand was discovered 1 month prior to the 2010 expedition. It would certainly have reduced the size of the box needed to be searched? If it was presumed/hoped/whatever to be part of the Electra then, logically, given the hypothesis, the rest of it (whatever it is) wouldn't be far away.
 
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