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Author Topic: Taraia object  (Read 21811 times)

Don White

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2020, 07:55:24 AM »

When I saw Ric's reply to my three options, I thought, it's coconut palms, and that seems to be the growing consensus.

It appears that a tree gets washed in, captured for a while, then washes out again. Thus some photos show an object and others don't. There is only a tree there sometimes (Schrodinger's tree?).

But why only one? Is there some reason that only one tree would be captured there, or does it just happen there has only been one on those occasions?

Where do the trees go after that? Is there a place where they accumulate, or are they washed back out to sea?

Are there stray coconut logs around the lagoon shores?

Don

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2020, 08:19:56 AM »

It appears that a tree gets washed in, captured for a while, then washes out again. Thus some photos show an object and others don't. There is only a tree there sometimes (Schrodinger's tree?).

There's an object there for a few years. Sometimes it's more visible than others. High versus low tide seems to be the best explanation.

But why only one?

Because for the most part, cocos are not prone to being washed into the lagoon.  Most are inland.  The southern shore of the main passage is the only place where cocos grow near the water in a spot that gets clobbered by storms.

Is there some reason that only one tree would be captured there, or does it just happen there has only been one on those occasions?

It's a logical place for a log to wash up but it's a rare event.

Where do the trees go after that? Is there a place where they accumulate, or are they washed back out to sea?

 Stuff does appear, and then disappear, from the lagoon shore.  For several years there was a big rusty tank on the lagoon shore over by Kanawa Point.  Then it went away. I don't know where stuff goes but I don't think anything in the lagoon gets washed back out to sea. There's plenty of force to wash things into the lagoon but very little force going the other way.

Are there stray coconut logs around the lagoon shores?

If there's a coconut log graveyard, I've never seen it.  I suspect what few logs wash the lagoon eventually get waterlogged enough to sink to the bottom and get covered with silt..
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Christian Stock

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2020, 09:03:08 AM »


Is there some reason that only one tree would be captured there, or does it just happen there has only been one on those occasions?

It's a logical place for a log to wash up but it's a rare event.



I don't have any first-hand experience with the tides there, but it looks like at least some of the ocean water flowing in from Tatiman creates a clockwise current around the Northern part of the lagoon. That's probably what caused that sandbar to build up at Taraia. That same action would cause the log to get hung up on the sandbar. It also makes sense that airplane parts that were originally on the reef North of the passage would wash up in that area rather than in the main body of the lagoon.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2020, 09:08:56 AM »

It also makes sense that airplane parts that were originally on the reef North of the passage would wash up in that area rather than in the main body of the lagoon.

And that is where a former Niku resident told us he saw airplane wreckage sometime in the 1950s, but if
it was there then it seems to be gone now, either from being salvaged by locals or washed away - or both.
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MichaelAshmore

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2020, 11:33:45 AM »

Or once again being covered by silt/sand while being forgotten,
until Niku resident recalls wreckage years later.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2020, 12:23:28 PM »

If we were there we'd go check it out, but it certainly doesn't warrant a dedicated expedition.  At the moment, there is nothing that justifies the immense expense of another trip to the island.  The last expedition that produced positive evidence was Niku VI in 2010.  The 5 expeditions since then (TIGHAR in 2012,  TIGHAR in 2015, Betchart in 2015, Betchart in 2017, and Nat Geo in 2019) have found zip. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
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Jon Romig

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #51 on: September 26, 2020, 06:38:36 PM »

Sorry if I am beating a tired drum, but if a part of the Electra had had sufficient buoyancy to end up on Taraia, it certainly had sufficient buoyancy to drift just about anywhere else around Niku, and much more likely to have. I think the Electra may indeed have sunk at sea as many surmise, however not near Howland but near Niku. Those spending millions scanning the sea bottom elsewhere would do well to turn their sights onto a few square miles near Niku, focusing on the deep areas that haven’t yet been searched.

Unfortunately, the last five expeditions were proven to be under-resourced for the kind of deep search (literal and figurative) now required, after the “easy” successes of TIGHAR’s early days. Let’s hope that in the future searches becomes much more affordable and effective due to inevitable advances in artificial intelligence, robotics and remote sensing.

Earhart searchers of the future may well look back on TIGHAR’s efforts the way contemporary explorers admire Shackleton from the relative comfort and safety of McMurdo Station. Those who participated in TIGHAR’s expeditions were and are heroes in my book.

Jon
Jon Romig 3562R
 
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MichaelAshmore

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2020, 01:00:10 PM »

Although a separate trip to Niku is not cost effective. An in-depth search of the lagoon would be more likely to have results than the extensive cost of deep exploration surrounding the island.
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Ross Devitt

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2020, 12:57:14 AM »

  What if the Taraia object is exactly where it crashed and not brought in by tidal movement over any period of time.

Any hypothesis that has the Electra landing in the lagoon has to dismiss all of the post-loss radio signals and the Bevington Object plus assume the Navy fliers missed an airplane wreck sitting right there in plane sight.

The hypothesis that the Electra landed on the reef is the only thing that has stopped me asking (in the last 20 or so years) why on earth Amelia would have landed out on the reef flat.
As an relatively inexperienced, but adequate, pilot, if I was approaching an island with wide sandy beaches, ore coral rubble beaches, I would have tried lining up on the coral.  I'm pretty sure Amelia and Fred were low enough on fuel to know they would be relying on the Electra for accommodation and supplies of whatever they had, like tools etc.
I'm also fairly sure they would realise that the Electra would never be flown off again if they landed on the reef, even if the crevasses in the coral didn;t tear the gear off.
Better to risk landing those lovely big balloon tyres that were more or less made for landing on sand, on loose coral rubble or soft sand, and coming to a sudden halt, even if they hit a small boulder or two or tore off a wing tip, or even a whole wing.
There appear to be lots of, admittedly sloping, coral ruble or sand beaches around most of Niku.

Had they done that, and had they avoided a fire on landing, they would have had shelter, food, water and survival stores.  They would have had no chance to fly off, but they would have been visible to a search and perhaps alive.

Assuming they chose to land on the reef, they still immediately gave up any chance of flying off, but added the complication of their shelter being subject to destruction on the first high tide.

I know a pilot's first though is to save the plane, which is the cause of so many crashes when someone tries to turn back when an engine fails.  But logically, you put the thing down somewhere survivable.  Stuff the plane - save the people.

Th' Wombat
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2020, 11:27:22 AM »

That she landed on the reef is pretty much beyond question. Why she chose the reef will always be a matter of speculation.  Having walked the reef myself, I don't agree that deciding to land there meant accepting the loss of the airplane.  It's better than some runways I've landed on.  And having walked the very soft and often steeply sloped beaches, I'd go for the reef.  Her entire career was tied up in that airplane.  Land safely, figure out what's wrong with the radio, and call Itasca. Have them bring enough fuel to fly to Howland. Refuel and complete the world flight.
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2020, 12:03:36 PM »

And, AE probably was aware of a similar sized aircraft that had successfully landed on a fringing reef just 9 months before her flight.

https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/64_ReefLanding/64_ReefLanding.htm

amck
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MichaelAshmore

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2021, 03:50:11 AM »

After months of reviewing the original image, Here's what I have. This is an image of the left wing of Amelia’s Electra. The size, shape and shadowing have all the earmarks of this. Even down to the aileron partially broken off. And unlike the fuselage, the wing could be hiding in shallow water due to its height. This seriously needs to be looked at.
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Christian Stock

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2021, 10:55:31 AM »

I hate to bring this up again, mostly because it’s been beaten to death very recently, but I just rewatched the aerial tour video, and there IS something under water in the exact spot, reflecting light. It’s at 23:44 and appears for about 2 seconds.  In my image it is at 8 o’clock, near the left edge of the picture. The reflection appears and disappears before going out of frame.

If you watch the video for 30 seconds or so around that time, you will see plenty of sunlight reflecting off the surface of the water. This image shows a reflection from something underneath the surface. Maybe a bare spot of sand-worn coral reflecting some sunlight? It’s certainly not an entire airplane....
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2021, 12:19:56 AM »

I was looking at this photo this evening and turned it from side to side. I believe there maybe something to this photo. It appears to me to be part of motor housing. The round cylinder profile shown almost indicates that it forced its way into the ground. Just my thought but it is very interesting.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Taraia object
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2021, 07:27:39 AM »

How big do you think it is?
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