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Author Topic: Nina Paxton  (Read 12916 times)

Greg Daspit

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2018, 10:49:25 AM »

In the Southern Appalachian Archives.org site.
"The Call of a Courageous Woman" document notes the last time she heard Earhart was August 10th but it's grouped with a letter dated July 30th?
The date of this document and what "message" was actually "enclosed" with the letters is important.


"The Call of a Courageous Woman" document pretty well destroys Paxton's credibility.  After repeatedly sayin she wasn't pay close attention to what she heard on July 3rd, she writes an extremely detailed account of what Earhart supposedly said, including:
"The Captain isn't right here with me; he is over near the plane."  Earhart would never refer to Noonan as "the Captain" and she has to be in the plane to be on the radio.


I agree.
(Edit. I know he was a Captain earlier.)
 I was thinking she read "Captain Noonan" somewhere.
A local paper perhaps
http://www.dailyindependent.com/news/earhart-mystery-has-ashland-connection/article_aa68717e-6aa4-11e7-abb0-235be63c5f1e.html

I wasn't sure we had all of the copies/ versions of the messages yet. Les Kinney mentioned not all of the documents were uploaded.

3971R
 
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:17:53 AM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2018, 11:37:53 AM »

I wasn't sure we had all of the copies/ versions of the messages yet. Les Kinney mentioned not all of the documents were uploaded.

I feel sure we do not have all of the versions but we have enough to see what was going on.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2018, 11:46:04 AM »

(Edit. I know he was a Captain earlier.)
 I was thinking she read "Captain Noonan" somewhere.

Noonan never actually captained a ship although he had the necessary licenses.  He was frequently referred to in press accounts about the Earhart flight as "Captain Noonan" but Amelia never referred to him as "the Captain."  In her notes taken during the world flight she initially referred to him as "Freddy" and later as "Fred."  Other short wave listeners heard her refer to him only as "my navigator."
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2018, 11:57:09 AM »

(Edit. I know he was a Captain earlier.)
 I was thinking she read "Captain Noonan" somewhere.

Noonan never actually captained a ship although he had the necessary licenses.  He was frequently referred to in press accounts about the Earhart flight as "Captain Noonan" but Amelia never referred to him as "the Captain."  In her notes taken during the world flight she initially referred to him as "Freddy" and later as "Fred."  Other short wave listeners heard her refer to him only as "my navigator."

Thanks, I did not recall seeing where she called him that but at the same time was not sure if she did at some times. I agreed based more on the context of the situation. In radioing for help its not important that people know a former captain is hurt. It is important they know her navigator is hurt.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:58:53 AM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2018, 01:17:41 PM »

The Forum analysis of Nina Paxton resulted in changing her credibility category from Credible to Not Credible.  That not only eliminates one of the "active" periods but also leaves Betty Klenck as the only daytime-at-Gardner transmission, which increases the special nature of that event.

There is obviously great value in this kind of re-examination of individual post-loss receptions, especially if new source material comes to light as was the case with Paxton courtesy of Les Kinney (even though Les is probably not happy with the outcome).

Next up, Mabel Larremore.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2018, 07:50:54 AM »

In an email to me Les Kinney says:

"Posting the Nina Paxton Papers on your forum is commendable. As usual your forum postings predictable.

I am sorry but it is you "that is not happy with the outcome."  Twisting facts, using language to create doubt and offset an argument when you are without facts, (off and running) is a good example, and cherry picking to an agreeable audience, doesn't alter the facts. The Nina Paxton Papers can't be refuted."

He goes on to list what he considers to be the facts and offers to arrange a debate with me.  I can't imagine a greater waste of everyone's time.
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Karen Hoy

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2018, 01:42:42 PM »

Les Kinney debated Tom King at the Earhart-Noonan Symposium in May. Kinney ranted non-stop in favor of the Japanese Capture hypothesis, accused TIGHAR members of being deliberate liars, and said the 1935 picture shows Earhart because he says it does.

The TIGHAR members in the audience were not amused.

Karen Hoy #2610CR
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Leon R White

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2018, 08:51:25 AM »

I need facts.  He's out.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2018, 09:37:17 AM »

I need facts.  He's out.

In fairness, for what it's worth, here are Mr. Kinney's facts:

"Here are the facts:

You said: It's only after Putnam disputes her original account of what Earhart said that Paxton discovers the piece of scratch paper and changes her story to include "an island she called Marshall."  After that, she's "off and running" with her Marshall Islands references.

Paxton doesn't dispute her original account. Nor does Putnam dispute her original account. Those are your words. Putnam simply said there is no land within 200 miles northeast of Howland 200 miles. Ric, you have no idea what Paxton said in her earlier message.

After receiving Putnam's short note dated August 4, Nina's letter of August 5, 1937, clearly explains there "blank spaces" because she couldn't remember exactly what had been said. Nina then says she found "a piece of scratch paper on which she had written while listening." There is nothing suspicious about that. Are you saying Nina was lying to Putnam? If so, what was her motive for lying? Are you saying she spent the next 33 years of her life perpetuating a lie - for what purpose? 

Sorry, Ric, Nina never changed her story.  Why would she go from correctly describing "Marshall Islands" to "Marshall Island?" No doubt her notes are a compilation probably completed sometime in August. "Marshall Island" is what she thought she originally heard. Naively, its what she thought the Marshall Islands were called for sometime. Years ago, you repeatedly commented Paxton couldn't be believed because her known correspondence was from the mid 1940-s and she would have had an opportunity to see news reports and "Flight to Freedom." Now you have doubled down and insinuate Nina must be lying. No dice. You can't have it both ways.

 You said: "Earhart would never refer to Noonan as "the Captain" and she has to be in the plane to be heard on the radio.

Come 'on Ric, even Nina would have known the radio was in the plane. All she did was report what she thought was being said. That's being honest. Your comment reeks of desperation to keep your flock together.

You said: "Noonan never actually captained a ship although he had the necessary licenses.  He was frequently referred to in press accounts about the Earhart flight as "Captain Noonan" but Amelia never referred to him as "the Captain."  In her notes taken during the world flight she initially referred to him as "Freddy" and later as "Fred."  Other short wave listeners heard her refer to him only as "my navigator."

 For your information, Ric, Earhart referred to Noonan in the first person as "Captain" many times. Attached are several PDF's of first person news accounts of Amelia calling Noonan, "Captain."

Several years ago, I received a copy of your recent remarks of Nina Paxton. Remarks you failed to post to your forum.  You mentioned  that Nina heard the call sign of Earhart's previous plane, I seriously doubt Nina knowledge of the call sign was "an example of occult information." Do you really believe that?

It happened simply because on July 3, 1937, Nina heard Amelia blurt out "KHABQ" in a fit of emotional distress and scrawled it down on a piece of scratch paper."
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2018, 10:49:35 AM »

I need facts.  He's out.

In fairness, for what it's worth, here are Mr. Kinney's facts:

"Here are the facts:

You said: It's only after Putnam disputes her original account of what Earhart said that Paxton discovers the piece of scratch paper and changes her story to include "an island she called Marshall."  After that, she's "off and running" with her Marshall Islands references.

Paxton doesn't dispute her original account. Nor does Putnam dispute her original account. Those are your words. Putnam simply said there is no land within 200 miles northeast of Howland 200 miles. Ric, you have no idea what Paxton said in her earlier message.


He left out that Putnam said "While I know you have conveyed to me exactly what came to you, yet it is only fair to say that there are some features of the alleged message which make it utterly increditable"

No one knows what was on the scratch paper. Betty kept her original notes. Nina did not.

I would like to see the original messages actually received by Putnam and others. The only copy (kept by Nina)I have seen so far cannot have been associated with the letter it was grouped with because the "message" has a paragraph referencing something happening after the letter was written. It also appears to have had words scratched out and changed.

Nina's copy of the 7-30 letter to Putnam has Howland scratched out and "MI" written below. That is not filling in blanks but changing what was originally typed.
3971R
 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 11:13:27 AM by Greg Daspit »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2018, 01:54:39 PM »

Bob Brandenburg is wondering about Paxton's radio. I don't think she ever described it but the 1962 magazine article includes a photo of her with a radio and the caption implies it is the one she had in 1937.  Anybody want to take a crack at identifying it?

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Matt Revington

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2018, 02:47:59 PM »

Philco Model 38-9K (available June 1937)
The console version of Model 38-9. This cabinet style was used for several 1938 Philco models.


Original selling price: $65

Number made: 28,400 (Note: Figure includes production of models 38-23K, 38-38K, 38-39K, 38-40K, 38-89K, 38-623K, 38-624K, 38-630K & 38-2630K)
http://philcoradio.com/gallery2/1938a/#Model_38-9K
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2018, 02:57:10 PM »

Philco Model 38-9K (available June 1937)

Excellent!  So Paxton must have bought it shortly before her reception on July 3rd. Bob mayd be able to get the technical specs.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2018, 03:08:30 PM »

Interesting she scratched out Philco in her copy of the 7-30 letter to Putnam. Why?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Nina Paxton
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 03:48:24 PM »

Interesting she scratched out Philco in her copy of the 7-30 letter to Putnam. Why?

Hmmmm - I wonder if Philco was considered a low-end brand.  I wonder how the $65 price compared to, for example, the Klenck's 25-tube Zenith "Statosphere"?
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