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Author Topic: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?  (Read 88124 times)

Ashley Such

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2010, 06:55:28 PM »

He had to get them within radio range in order that:

  • They could talk to the Itasca.
  • The DF equipment (on land or on the plane) would have a chance of getting a bearing.
  • They would have sufficient fuel to fly the bearing given by the Itasca or worked out by AE and FN.

I'm moderately confident that Fred didn't say, "Fly east until we can hear Howland.  Then we'll get a bearing from them and fly thataway until land comes in sight."

The 1812 GMT transmission suggests that Fred was hard at work before they were aware of any radio emergency.  AE says that they are about "100 miles out" and asks for a bearing.

The 1910-1912 GMT transmission is where AE indicates that they can't hear the Itasca. 

At 2013 GMT, she reports that they are on "the line."  She doesn't say how long they've been on it. 

I don't see any evidence that Fred wasn't on the job, doing what he was supposed to do.  If there hadn't been a failure to communicate (a complex problem with many factors--an accident chain that began long before the last flight), they would have gotten to Howland.

Very good points, Marty! Well said! :)
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Bill Lloyd

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2010, 07:37:27 PM »


It seems to me that the "200 mile" message couldn't have been from a dawn sighting; it was logged at Howland 3 minutes before the sun rose there.  AE and FN's local dawn would have to be at least a few minutes later than Howland's.

The "100 mile" message might be after FN had done some chart work with the dawn LOP.

I think that the 200 mile report would indeed be based on Fred’s observation or anticipated observation of the dawn line time.

AE made the 200 mile out report at 1742-45z which according to the almanac tables was the sunrise time at Howland and was on her scheduled transmit time.   Also, according to the tables, sunrise time at the coordinates for 200 miles southwest, bearing 258, was 1757z or 12-15 minutes after her report at 1745z.

Perhaps because it was twilight, Fred was estimating that the sunrise was 12 minutes away when he gave her the 200 mile note, therefore, they could have actually been about 227 miles from the Howland LOP.  12 minutes x 2.25mpm=27 miles. For the Electra to have covered the distance from the position that it appears to have been at 1745z, to the reported position at 1912z, the ground speed would be about 150 mph which seems a little fast. If their actual position at 1912z was still about 10-15 miles west, tracking inbound to the Howland LOP, then the ground speed would have been about 140 mph and seems feasible.

Fred was obviously a very competent navigator and understood the importance of an accurate time check.  Their departure from Lae was delayed until he could get an accurate to the second time check that he knew he would need to use the almanac tables.  This indicates that he planned on plotting the LOP at sunrise to determine how far they were from Howland.

I do not sense that he would have simply relied on radio navigation.  His expertise was in celestial navigation.  His intent was to find the island by the LOP method with or without radio navigation.  If AE could get a directional bearing from the Itasca, then they could find Howland, nevertheless, he was going to use his sightings, charts and chronometer to the best of his ability. Doing so is what probably saved them from having to ditch in the ocean. Without a radio bearing to the Itasca, it was almost impossible to hit the island. With an elevation on the island of only 20 ft. and flying at 1000 ft, it would be impossible to distinguish it from the sea.
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Alfred Hendrickson

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2010, 10:50:12 AM »

This is an interesting discussion, albeit somewhat off-topic.

I have searched and can't find any more information on the plane that was found in PNG. Does anyone know if they ever dove the wreck and identified the plane?

Love to Mother,

Alfred
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2010, 03:30:41 PM »

I too would like this other group to make that final effort to ID the wreck, if for no other reason than to give some closure to the families if it is the PV-2 we think it might be. Even after more than 60 years, they never stop wondering what happened. Trust me.
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Bill Lloyd

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2010, 09:33:56 AM »

I too would like this other group to make that final effort to ID the wreck, if for no other reason than to give some closure to the families if it is the PV-2 we think it might be. Even after more than 60 years, they never stop wondering what happened. Trust me.
Absolutely correct.
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2010, 10:30:27 AM »

Does anyone know how to contact Joel Rangat Wandau who indicated he was "from the area" and "we are in the process of identifying now with the help of qualified divers..."

Joel, are you out there?

Seems he is connected somehow, but didn't reply to the questions I asked after his early post in this thread.

Andrew


i am from the area where the plane is believed to be submerged.. though some of the locals have sighted the wreck and actually touched it we are yet to actually photograph the wreck as evidence . there are two skeletons located in the cabin upfront.. we are in the process of identifiying now with the help of qualified divers.. according to one person who actually saw it go down and several old people in the village who were around the plane crashed in 1937...before the war... the island name is matsungan island on the west coast of buka in the north of the autonomous region of bougainville
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2010, 06:03:42 PM »

Still nothing further out there on this that I can find. 

I suspect the locals may have found reason(s) to grow cool to the idea of this lost and found Lockheed being the actual Earhart Electra or more noise would have been coming through the wires by now.  Anyone else heard or seen anything?

Not me.  I haven't gone looking, either.  It's not hard to imagine that they've found a historic aircraft; I do find it very difficult to imagine that it is NR16020.

Strange things do happen, but that's not the way to bet.
LTM,

           Marty
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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2011, 02:36:03 PM »

Are there any news about the Papua-Electra? August was 5 month ago...
Oskar
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Mark Petersen

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2011, 02:54:54 PM »

I think it was captured by the Japanese  ;D
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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2011, 02:44:55 AM »

I think it was captured by the Japanese  ;D

...and shipped to NIKU?  :o
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2011, 11:28:01 AM »

Are there any news about the Papua-Electra? August was 5 month ago...

I think that if they were confident it was NR16020 it would have already been indentified as such and plastered all over the news by now.  I think no news points towards it not being the Electra in question.

LTM,

Don
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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2011, 05:26:59 AM »

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but there is a gentleman who claimed that several australians on patrol found a half buried wasp engine in the hills of papua New guinea during WWII. they pulled a tag off of an engine mount that had information that coincided with AE's plane yada yada yada. (not really believing this whole part of the story)

the writer goes on to say that prior to WWII there were several lockheeds (forget the exact variant but I think he said a 10) flying out of an airport on papua new guinea. Makes me wonder if this possibly IS an electra just not THAT electra.
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Chris Johnson

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2011, 06:16:39 AM »

We looked into the airplane in the Solomons and found that a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura was lost during WWII in the same area where the sunken "Electra" was reportedly seen.  The Ventura (Lockheed Model 18) was basically a bigger version of the Model 10. It's easy to see how someone could jump to the conclusion that a twin engined, twin-tailed Lockheed was the famous missing twin engined, twin-tailed Lockheed.

As for the wreck in the New Britain jungle .... that fish has gotten bigger and bigger since the Aussie corporal who saw it first contacted me in 1992. He said nothing about an engine tag.

 
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Re: Earhart's Electra found in Papua New Guinea?
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2011, 07:45:20 AM »

We looked into the airplane in the Solomons and found that a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura was lost during WWII in the same area where the sunken "Electra" was reportedly seen.  The Ventura (Lockheed Model 18) was basically a bigger version of the Model 10. It's easy to see how someone could jump to the conclusion that a twin engined, twin-tailed Lockheed was the famous missing twin engined, twin-tailed Lockheed.

As for the wreck in the New Britain jungle .... that fish has gotten bigger and bigger since the Aussie corporal who saw it first contacted me in 1992. He said nothing about an engine tag.

 

Hi Ric!
Are you absolutley sure that the "Electra" of Papua New Guinea isn't "THE ELECTRA"?
The New Britain jungle-Electra of the Aussies an old story, as we know. Never believed it. (Distance!!!)
Oskar
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