Was the lav window openable?

[Jerry Germann]

Ric  Is it possible that what we are seeing here is the the forward standard window is a curved unit, and the rear window is actually a flat plate?  It would give them different reflective qualities.

Given that the rear window was built for a navigation station, would they have used a flat glass to achieve an optically better sighting window?

amck

I wondered that as well Andrew, and have studied details to try to determine that,...things such as the width of the coaming frame at the center point would be telling, .... if wider than I would believe flat stock glass was installed, if frame width is consistent width to mimic the curvature of the fuselage body, then curved....Inconclusive for me so far.
However; If the gap between the two bow shaped objects ( the coaming frame and what appears to be it's reflected image) is considered, that gap makes me tend to lean more toward curved glass.

[Matt Revington]

In the lower portion of the window  ( in the box) it appears that there may be the edges of broken glass, at this resolution it may also be an artifact but a broken window doesn't reflect

[Ric Gillespie]

Unless we find a photo of somebody sticking his head out the window I don't think we're going to resolve this with certainty.  On the other hand, it doesn't really matter whether the window was openable, or removable, or was broken and repaired, or none of the above.  It was intact in Miami and it got replaced with a patch that later oil-canned.

[Dan Swift]

Could it be the edge one of those silver bags reflecting? 

[Ric Gillespie]

Could it be the edge one of those silver bags reflecting?

Those silver bags are soundproofing.  NR16020 didn't have that luxury.

[Randy Conrad]

Ric...after looking at the photo again I'm to believe that this definately is a reflection. However...if you take the window frame (as shown) and being in direct contact with the sun....would the other side of the window frame create the reflective illusion? Also, do we know who was responsible for removing and installing windows on Locheed Martin's aircrafts in the 1930's. It might be alot of help in finding out what manufacturer was responsible for making these windows!

[Ric Gillespie]

Ric...after looking at the photo again I'm to believe that this definately is a reflection. However...if you take the window frame (as shown) and being in direct contact with the sun....would the other side of the window frame create the reflective illusion?

I don't think so.

Also, do we know who was responsible for removing and installing windows on Locheed Martin's aircrafts in the 1930's. It might be alot of help in finding out what manufacturer was responsible for making these windows!

Forgive me for being picky but there was no Lockheed Martin in the 1930s. Lockheed Aircraft Corp. did not merge with Martin until 1995.  Also "aircraft" is both singular and plural.  There is no such word as "aircrafts." End of rant.

Lockheed installed windows in its aircraft as part of the manufacturing process. We don't know who installed the special lavatory window and the cabin door in Earhart's aircraft but after-market changes to windows could be done by any properly licensed shop.  It could be that the windows were installed by Mantz's company United Air Services.

[Bill Mangus]

"It could be that the windows were installed by Mantz's company United Air Services."

It does seem likely that United Air Services would have done the work.  Are there any records left from that company or Mantz's later work?

[Ric Gillespie]

Are there any records left from that company or Mantz's later work?

No records, in the sense of work orders, but I found quite a bit of correspondence between Putnam and Mantz in the Doris Rich papers at the NASM archive.  I'm still working through the copies I made of that material but at this point it's clear that the navigator's station in the Electra was based on the navigator's station in a Pan Am Clipper Putnam inspected in San Francisco.  There was much discussion of installing a "hatch" for celestial observations like the one in the Clipper. 

[Ric Gillespie]

Larry Inman provided a higher resolution copy of the photo.  The lack of reflection and the presence of the shadow (red arrow) really look to me like there is no reflective material there.

[Ted G Campbell]

All,

I wouldn't think you would want the window to slide aft because this would cause an inside pressure affect.  Sliding forward would create a suction effect which would make more sense.
Ted Campbell

[Jerry Germann]

IMO, the easiest way to design and construct a window that would be operable,in that area, would be to place the Plexi-pane in vertical tracks to enable it to move up and down....full open window would move downward toward floor, this plexi would have a horizontal bottom track attached, and would contact stops at the bottom, to stop the top of the plexi at or just below the bottom of the window coaming. Stationary/fixed horizontal track at top of window coaming.( I have pretty much described the design in which auto windows have been constructed since the early days, minus any crank mechanism)....in it's absense pressure could be applied to the sides of the tracks via thumbscrews or other means to allow one to position window at any desired opening. I see vertical movement of any operable window in that area less intrusive of surrounding circumferentials and wall panels on either side,than one would experience in a horizontal design.
I may have gotten off track a bit pondering the design,... but,back to trying to determine whether or not the window pane is in place in the images.... To me, the shading is a result of the change in direction of the window coaming at the top and bottom, and the image ( what I believe to be the inner flange of the coaming) isn't able to reflect with the same intensity at the shaded areas,due to the angle change. I don't know if I am right, it is what I think I see...

[Matt Revington]

This photo taken in the Wheeler Field Hangar shortly before it was moved to Luke Field also shows a significant lack of reflection from the lavatory compared to the other window on that side of the plane.

[Ric Gillespie]

This photo taken in the Wheeler Field Hangar shortly before it was moved to Luke Field also shows a significant lack of reflection from the lavatory compared to the other window on that side of the plane.

You're right.  Let's see if we can find a photo where there IS a reflection in that window.

[Ric Gillespie]

Let's see if we can find a photo where there IS a reflection in that window.

Bingo.